What's new
What's new

Model K16...new apron worm gear AND what is this 4th shaft in the apron for??

tx656

Plastic
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
In the process of cleaning up the apron. Ordered a new brass worm gear.

worm gear.jpg

There is a set of grooved/textured/knurled 'rings' on the left side (indicated with the arrow). A shaft that runs the length of the bed passes through them. The shaft is smooth with 2 keyways 180 degrees apart running the length of the shaft. I figured I would just rewatch the applicable Keith Rucker Model K apron videos but Keith's Model K doesn't have this shaft??

apron - arrows.jpg

I could wait until I reassemble everything to figure out what it does...or I can ask you guys! I would guess those 'rings' or whatever they should be called should rotate; maybe function as a nut/locknet to set some kind of spacing? Otherwise why would Monarch go through the trouble of giving them texture? I've tried channel locks (protecting the rings with cardboard but they didn't budge).

The shaft is operated by the top most lever on the right side of the apron. (Arrow)
apron lever arrow.jpg

The applicable lever rotates this inner shaft which is cut away on one side.

backside arrow.jpg

The shaft rides in this holder to the right of the gear box.
headstock arrow.jpg

In other news I was able to clean up the apron without a major disassembly. I'm going to pull the saddle and clean it up before I reinstall the apron.
 
20221002_193726.jpg

this is the stop on my lathe. You can also get an indexing turret for multiple stop depths.

It looks like your outer one is not original. The outer piece should be around 3" long threaded externally going into the apron. and the inner lock nut is just a lock nut.
 
99% done on an apron refresh.

apron new2.jpg

Having an issue getting the cross slide clutch adjusted but I'll figure it out. The outer pieces of the thrust bearings on the outer/handle end of the shaft seem too thick. Not enough 'room' for the engagement lever to 'do its thing' and put tension on the clutch before bumping into the large washer the engagement lever sits against. I'm going to order a thinner thrust bearings. Not sure what else to try. It doesn't look like rocket science. (Note: The shaft/clutch/handle that engages the 'left/right' motion came out good!)

Next I'll get the shafts cleaned up. Power washer first and then a bath in Evaporust. I've become a fan of that stuff.
 
99% done on an apron refresh.

View attachment 378849

Having an issue getting the cross slide clutch adjusted but I'll figure it out. The outer pieces of the thrust bearings on the outer/handle end of the shaft seem too thick. Not enough 'room' for the engagement lever to 'do its thing' and put tension on the clutch before bumping into the large washer the engagement lever sits against. I'm going to order a thinner thrust bearings. Not sure what else to try. It doesn't look like rocket science. (Note: The shaft/clutch/handle that engages the 'left/right' motion came out good!)

Next I'll get the shafts cleaned up. Power washer first and then a bath in Evaporust. I've become a fan of that stuff.
You might want to call monarch. When i replaced all the bearing in my 16 CY apron, the original thrust bearings were no longer available. Monarch designed a simple retrofit kit which, as i recall involved machijing a clearence counter bore in the cone clutch to accomodate the thicker thrust bearings.
 

Attachments

  • 20200217075540047.pdf
    58.4 KB · Views: 16
I think you might have that worm gear the wrong way around btw... Pretty sure the built in "spacer" goes inboard.

Paint came out nice on the apron.
 
I think you might have that worm gear the wrong way around btw... Pretty sure the built in "spacer" goes inboard.

Paint came out nice on the apron.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll re-look at pics from taking it apart and check the alignment. Would hate to tear it up given what it cost.
 
Thanks for the heads up. I'll re-look at pics from taking it apart and check the alignment. Would hate to tear it up given what it cost.
No worries, the only reason I knew to comment is I have a used one of those gears sitting on my coffee table at the moment and was looking online for a new one to compare it to and yours was the best picture of one I could find. I'm about 90% sure that the model C and K used the same basic gears, so I'm guessing it should be correct.
I'm not sure how to measure helical gears, but if you do have the gear still accessible could you take some measurements of things like the individual tooth thickness, etc? I'm wondering how worn this spare gear is, but it still engages with no real slop into the worm, so only way I could think to tell is apply a percentage based on what a new tooth thickness might be!

KT
 
No worries, the only reason I knew to comment is I have a used one of those gears sitting on my coffee table at the moment and was looking online for a new one to compare it to and yours was the best picture of one I could find. I'm about 90% sure that the model C and K used the same basic gears, so I'm guessing it should be correct.
I'm not sure how to measure helical gears, but if you do have the gear still accessible could you take some measurements of things like the individual tooth thickness, etc? I'm wondering how worn this spare gear is, but it still engages with no real slop into the worm, so only way I could think to tell is apply a percentage based on what a new tooth thickness might be!

KT
Here you go. These were done one handed (other hand taking pics)...so everything is 'approximate'.

1672018839295.jpeg1672018860441.jpeg1672018874932.jpeg1672018886710.jpeg1672018900094.jpeg1672018914892.jpeg1672018927241.jpeg1672018935570.jpeg
 
It is the lead/feed screw forward/reverse/neutral. The threaded collar is to make a fine adjustment to the feed kick out when it hits the saddle clamp on the reverse rod

You learn something new here every day...
I have had my 12CK for 2+ years now and never knew about that adjustable collar.
But then, I never use the feed kick-out either.
Never trusted it to be accurate enough.
Maybe it is?
I do use the the other stop to repeat up to shoulders but just stop the carriage manually and bump the last few thou by hand.
Will have to try the kick-out some time.
 

Attachments

  • 2023-06-05_01_40_49.jpg
    2023-06-05_01_40_49.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 19
In the process of cleaning up the apron. Ordered a new brass worm gear.

View attachment 376261

There is a set of grooved/textured/knurled 'rings' on the left side (indicated with the arrow). A shaft that runs the length of the bed passes through them. The shaft is smooth with 2 keyways 180 degrees apart running the length of the shaft. I figured I would just rewatch the applicable Keith Rucker Model K apron videos but Keith's Model K doesn't have this shaft??

View attachment 376264

I could wait until I reassemble everything to figure out what it does...or I can ask you guys! I would guess those 'rings' or whatever they should be called should rotate; maybe function as a nut/locknet to set some kind of spacing? Otherwise why would Monarch go through the trouble of giving them texture? I've tried channel locks (protecting the rings with cardboard but they didn't budge).

The shaft is operated by the top most lever on the right side of the apron. (Arrow)
View attachment 376265

The applicable lever rotates this inner shaft which is cut away on one side.

View attachment 376266

The shaft rides in this holder to the right of the gear box.
View attachment 376267

In other news I was able to clean up the apron without a major disassembly. I'm going to pull the saddle and clean it up before I reinstall the apron.
If you dont mind sharing , how much did the bronze gear cost?
 
Thats better in my opinion than buying used.
It wil last another lifetime if kept in oil.
A lot of the damage we fix is from running dry, neglect.
Enjoy the benefit of making everything right again.
The paint is looking good to.
 
Worm gear has been flipped. Thanks for spotting that!View attachment 397812
Cool, glad I was able to be of some help!

Also, thanks for the pics of the worm gear. One difference between the K and the C is the worm gear on the C has a much more radical "rake" (no idea what the proper term is on helical gears) to the teeth than the K does. When I first looked at your pictures it didn't jump out at me, but with the second set you posted it did. Interesting difference. Not sure what the reasoning behind it would be though.

Also, I don't think that price for the gear is crazy out of the park when you consider the chunk of bronze it is cut from is probably somewhere between $100 and $150 all on its own in today's market (although I understand prices have started dropping a bit...).
 
I do use the the other stop to repeat up to shoulders but just stop the carriage manually and bump the last few thou by hand.
Will have to try the kick-out some time.
That is a nice carriage stop. I had never seen one like that before. looks like it rotates with 4 "options" for different depth? That would be useful. Another bit to keep an eye out for... ha
 








 
Back
Top