What's new
What's new

Deckel FP3–should I buy from Germany?

CJBricks

Plastic
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Fellas,

Hoping for a bit of help. I’m getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger and buying a nicer late model FP3 from Europe to then ship here to the US. Looking for help about shipping options and how much can I trust overseas machine dealers.

Heneka and Woll has a good looking late model manual FP3 (green one, non Activ) on their website and the “bay“ with a Singer badge on it. I tried to post a photo below, but it’s too large a file. I’ve read H&W often simply spruce up their machines cosmetically, rather than any serious overhaul. Can I trust their description of “top” condition? The downside of this particular machine is the rigid table. I’d likely have to simultaneously buy a universal table as well as a slotting head—both of which serve my needs.

Any other dealers in Europe I should look into or avoid? Wallima is gone, Singer doesn’t have any in stock—prob a bit too rich for my blood (as is FPS). How about Kai-tec-maschinen?

Shipping question: I’m going to have to find someone I can trust to pack it up for shipping. Looks like shipping to US eliminates the VAT, but I’ll still have to pay import fees in addition to the actual shipping cost. I’m figuring for a 1500kg machine I’m probably in the neighborhood of $3k, but that’s a bit of a guess. Can I trust H&W to help with shipping/crating recommendations if I go with their machine?

I currently have a Bridgeport clone, which has served me well, but I’m looking for something more robust, more precise, and better built. I’ve run an FP2 in the past and am familiar with Deckels.

Much appreciated in advance for any help. Also, please excuse any simple/rudimentary questions, as I’ve never shipped anything like this from Europe. in addition, if I’ve asked too many questions for a first post, my apologies.

CJ
 
Oh yeah, I should probably say that I understand if I bought a European machine it’d be metric and 50 Hz. Metric is easily overcome with DRO, and I can find a power source.
 
Last edited:
how much can I trust overseas machine dealers.

Heneka and Woll has a good looking late model manual FP3 (green one, non Activ) on their website and the “bay“ with a Singer badge on it. I tried to post a photo below, but it’s too large a file. I’ve read H&W often simply spruce up their machines cosmetically, rather than any serious overhaul. Can I trust their description of “top” condition? The downside of this particular machine is the rigid table. I’d likely have to simultaneously buy a universal table as well as a slotting head—both of which serve my needs.

That question is a bit like a german asking about the trustworthiness of Craiglist adverts.

H&W would be one of the last to trust. They may not be the leazebags they were in the past (knowingly selling broken stuff), but their pricing for a polished up good used machine has been on par with a Singer rebuilt machine in the past.
I have often wondered who buys from them and why. Its still a mystery to me.



Any other dealers in Europe I should look into or avoid? Wallima is gone, Singer doesn’t have any in stock—prob a bit too rich for my blood (as is FPS). How about Kai-tec-maschinen?

Wallima is swiss, they have the best machines there, good luck with pricing. Singer still excellent, but are they still doing rebuilds?
Kai-Tec is just a dealer like any other.

There is a reader of this forum, who does not post. He is in Sweden and had the same objective as you. When he finally found a good machine (indeed excellent), he flew to Frankfurt and checked it out. No issues. That does not work for you I guess.

Your situation is not unsimilar to you buying a machine in the US but 5 states away (you dont say where you are). Who you gonna call to check it and who do you trust. Plus of course the shipping issue.

Being in Germany myself it seems unplausible for me to ever buy from a dealer. There are so many good machines out there to buy directly from the selling company or privat party. But it means getting in a car and drive 2 or 3 hours to check one out. And watching the market for a long time waiting for the right occasion. Of course such parties would not ship to you.


Shipping question: I’m going to have to find someone I can trust to pack it up for shipping. Looks like shipping to US eliminates the VAT, but I’ll still have to pay import fees in addition to the actual shipping cost. I’m figuring for a 1500kg machine I’m probably in the neighborhood of $3k, but that’s a bit of a guess. Can I trust H&W to help with shipping/crating recommendations if I go with their machine?
Yes, their 500% margin allows for that
 
Peter and Martin,

Thank you for your thoughts. I have read a lot your previous posts, and learned more than I can say.

Peter, I appreciate your offer, but I'd really like to avoid Activ. I know there are great repeatability features with it, but considering all the electronics in the machines, I'd prefer to keep things as "manual" as possible if/when something failed.

Martin, thanks for you thoughts on the dealers. I have bought multiple machines here in the States, a couple from dealers when I needed/found a specific machine, and more directly from industry or private parties. Like you, I have universally found that I much prefer dealing w/ private parties over dealers for all the obvious reasons. However, being in the States (Oregon), our selection of these unique machines is limited...thus, I'm considering a European machine. Sadly I don't speak German--a little bit of Spanish--but next to nothing in German beyond hello and asking for a beer.

Therefore, if I want to buy a quality machine, I'm gonna have to pay top end money and more than likely buy from either a known/respected dealer, refurbisher (Singer or FTS), or perhaps someone with a large presence here on PM where they have a reputation to uphold. Sadly, Wallima is no longer selling his machines--I emailed him yesterday and he said he sold all his assets last summer. His website is still up, but he said he's locked out of it currently. I do appreciate your honesty about H&W and Kai-Tec.

CJ
 
Probably not relevant as you may buy the FP3 with a universal table.
But if it comes with only a fixed table, I happen to have a surplus like new
tilt-swivel table for it, type number 2229.
 
Thanks Erik. I'll def keep that in mind if anything concrete happens. Martin's advice on H&W def has me reconsidering that particular machine w/o the ability to inspect prior to purchase.
 
Hi Degull. Good idea, but I wouldn't know who to ask/where to start, unless someone here has a good contact. While I know of Peter and Martin from their frequent posts and knowledge base, they don't know me at all.

Best and most fun option would be to take a couple weeks touring Germany looking at Deckels, drinking beer, eating brats, but with a wife, kids, job, .... that's not gonna happen.
 
Peter and Martin,

Thank you for your thoughts. I have read a lot your previous posts, and learned more than I can say.

Peter, I appreciate your offer, but I'd really like to avoid Activ. I know there are great repeatability features with it, but considering all the electronics in the machines, I'd prefer to keep things as "manual" as possible if/when something failed.

Martin, thanks for you thoughts on the dealers. I have bought multiple machines here in the States, a couple from dealers when I needed/found a specific machine, and more directly from industry or private parties. Like you, I have universally found that I much prefer dealing w/ private parties over dealers for all the obvious reasons. However, being in the States (Oregon), our selection of these unique machines is limited...thus, I'm considering a European machine. Sadly I don't speak German--a little bit of Spanish--but next to nothing in German beyond hello and asking for a beer.

Therefore, if I want to buy a quality machine, I'm gonna have to pay top end money and more than likely buy from either a known/respected dealer, refurbisher (Singer or FTS), or perhaps someone with a large presence here on PM where they have a reputation to uphold. Sadly, Wallima is no longer selling his machines--I emailed him yesterday and he said he sold all his assets last summer. His website is still up, but he said he's locked out of it currently. I do appreciate your honesty about H&W and Kai-Tec.

CJ
Why would you pass on a Aktive machine, they are not that more complicated than one without?

I can also vouch for Peter Veltman, he was able to ship several items to me a few years ago, everything was packed very well....if I was in the market for a machine and he had what I was looking for I would not think twice about it!

Kevin
 
bsg--I'd absolutely buy from Peter if he had what I wanted. If I buy a Euro spec machine I'll have a bit of a challenge powering it--not impossible--but still a challenge. I'd like to keep an absolute min of 50 Hz components to prevent any electrical issues. I'd likely install a DRO on my own using 60 Hz power.

Martin, it sounds like you may not believe those machines are "uberholt." As the underlying question to my entire post is "who can I trust over there?" I'm relying quite heavily on opinions of those in country and those w/ more experience. As a type A control freak this isn't easy for me to do, but I do realize if I do something like this (and spend a very large amount of money for me), I need help. Thanks.
 
Kees, sorry. I realize I never asked for your opinion on that machine. Can you expand on your recommendation?
 
???
"Überholt" = refurbished/rebuilt
you think so?

I'd look for a machine that never needed an overhaul or a respray. They are around.
"Überholt" means only one thing to me that it is a full rebuild like Singer does. "Teiluberholt" means a respray to me.But I might be wrong. I do not know the firm but Stefan Gotteswinter bought his Deckel there.

I stay away from Kai-Tec.
 
I can't help with importing, but my 1970s FP3L is a 50Hz machine and it runs perfectly fine on 60Hz power. In fact it's kindof nice to have the spindle run 20% faster. The original owner also ran it on 60Hz without issue, and owned several Deckels.

Also, CJBricks you have a PM incoming.
 








 
Back
Top