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UMC 750 Delivered

BarnFab

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
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SOCAL
After way to much research I decided to get a UMC 750 to fill my yearning for 5 Axis functionality. I am well aware of the feedback from some and I must say that the positive feedback I had was way way more than the few negative ones so I guess time will tell.

I ended up getting a UMC 750 with 15k spindle, TSC, P-Cool, HSM and rest was pretty much standard. I did not see the value in the SS version and even with the options I still came in under the cost of an SS and figure 15k Spindle and TSC is more viable than moving a bit quicker.

Rigging was done by Walker Brothers and they did a great job of getting it into the driveway with inches to spare. It would have fitted easily but HAAS decided to ship with the Chip Conveyor attached. Also noted is that HAAS now have a different brand of Chip Conveyor to all the 750s I looked at, seems smaller.

The HAAS guys take about 40 hours to get it installed and calibrated so I should be making chips before year end.
 

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That's great! Sounds like you're excited to make chips. Is this your first 5-axis? Try reallllllly hard not to crash it, the 750's kinematics tend to get out of whack from crashing. Machine simulation is your new friend but you probably already know that.
 
Not to be a bitch or anything but I have a question ...

Here's the haas

umc750_18_bg.jpg


There's Z stacked on top of Y stacked on top of X, and when Y is at full extension the whole structure is hung way out.

We have a few 5 axis domestic machines, all the ones I've seen were built HiIlyer-style, double column with Y being front-to-back on the base, X being on a solid rail across the columns, and Z being the only one stacked on top of another axis. Also, with this layout the spindle is never hung way out from any support.

Can't be much difference cost-wise to build them either way, what's the reason Haas used a (to me anyhow) flimsier design ?
 
I think it comes down to bang for the buck compromise. I know shops with the UMC750 and they are happy with it for what they do. Mind you they won't be putting a 14" cube of heat treated 4140 on it and using a 4" face mill taking 1/2" deep cuts. They make a machine most of us can afford and make a living from. A Mazak or Okuma may be way more rigid and twice a heavy but the price might be out of range. I think Haas should have a super duty line that focus's on heavy rigid and super accurate machines rather than Super Speed crap. Funny though that the UMC350 has the Rotary itself moving in Y axis with X is on the Bridge and Z is on the X carriage. Now they just need to make it 2500 lbs heavier and finer balls crews and I'm a buyer!
 
Hi Emanuel:
When my former business partner bought a UMC 750, we put a tenths clock on it and checked out exactly what you're commenting on.
The droop when the ram was fully extended was about 0.0003", best we could measure.
I have no idea what it looks like now that it's been used for 8 yeas but I doubt it's still 0.0003".

An additional "benefit" of that geometry... the machine sounded like crap when it was cutting, even when it was brand spanking new.
The culprit seemed to be harmonics, and as I recall, extending the ram made it worse.
Aluminum was not so bad, but 4140 would bring over the neighbours with complaints.

Having said all that negative stuff, the owner was able to make it work, and it has been a successful and productive machine for him.
He doesn't seem to use it for hogging big hunks of steel or anything like that, and the 5 axis stuff I've contracted him to make for me over the years has been first class, but that's more of a commentary on his skill as a toolmaker, rather than praise of the machine.

So with some caveats, the proud new owner of this machine may well find it to be more than acceptable for him, so long as he keeps his expectations realistic and doesn't ask more of it than it can deliver.
It will never be a beast...as you point out the kinematics of it don't permit that, but it can be made to do pretty good work with some effort.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 
There's Z stacked on top of Y stacked on top of X, and when Y is at full extension the whole structure is hung way out.

We have a few 5 axis domestic machines, all the ones I've seen were built HiIlyer-style, double column with Y being front-to-back on the base, X being on a solid rail across the columns, and Z being the only one stacked on top of another axis. Also, with this layout the spindle is never hung way out from any support.

Can't be much difference cost-wise to build them either way, what's the reason Haas used a (to me anyhow) flimsier design ?

I've programmed/run a 750 and talked to other operators, and can confirm machine rigidity suffers when you're operating at more extreme negative Y. I would say this is one of the very few legitimate/consistent gripes about the 750. They all have a bit of nuance and things that must be worked around, and you hit the nail on the head for this design. Otherwise, I think it's a nice machine for the money.
 
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lol I expected that from you since you are the main person I have found with negative experiences and from what i can tell you got a refund and your still not happy.

In regards to the others with drop etc how many of them have been on the newer 750 as opposed to the old 750 ?

I hear you on the don't crash it thing. I invested in full simulation to avoid this best I can .

Why did I get a HAAS as opposed to say an Okuma .. well $$$ and requirements was the main drivers. the Okuma was 3 x the cost of the UMC and that is a huge ROI to meet in current times without a 5 Axis market. If it proves itself viable then I will happily put another OSP Control in place of it but I have a LOT to learn before that and it is fair to say the limitation is certainly me at this point.

In regards to accuracy , my tolerance is never gunna be under +- 5 thou and on most cases I can happily live with up to 20 thou without concern in most features. Sure some matter more than others but all this concern about microns isn't something I am worrying about.

I have been more than happy with the accuracy and repeatability of my other HAAS Machine and the fact they paid for the UMC proves my customers are happy with them as well.

At no point am I thinking this is a $500k plus machine and at no point will it ever see a 4" fly cutter or 12" block of 4130 etc.
 
lol I expected that from you since you are the main person I have found with negative experiences and from what i can tell you got a refund and your still not happy.

In regards to the others with drop etc how many of them have been on the newer 750 as opposed to the old 750 ?

I hear you on the don't crash it thing. I invested in full simulation to avoid this best I can .

Why did I get a HAAS as opposed to say an Okuma .. well $$$ and requirements was the main drivers. the Okuma was 3 x the cost of the UMC and that is a huge ROI to meet in current times without a 5 Axis market. If it proves itself viable then I will happily put another OSP Control in place of it but I have a LOT to learn before that and it is fair to say the limitation is certainly me at this point.

In regards to accuracy , my tolerance is never gunna be under +- 5 thou and on most cases I can happily live with up to 20 thou without concern in most features. Sure some matter more than others but all this concern about microns isn't something I am worrying about.

I have been more than happy with the accuracy and repeatability of my other HAAS Machine and the fact they paid for the UMC proves my customers are happy with them as well.

At no point am I thinking this is a $500k plus machine and at no point will it ever see a 4" fly cutter or 12" block of 4130 etc.
i truly hope you have better luck with it than most people.
 
i truly hope you have better luck with it than most people.
Most people I spoke to who have them love them, including you I found 4 who had justified issues. Don't get me wrong I had several warn me about expectations and not being unrealistic about it but over all the vast majority of people I spoke to and shops I visited where more than happy with their UMC's and would or have bought one again.

Hopefully I am soon to be one of the happy ones, either way i will keep you posted and you were certainly one of the more vocal UMC haters
 
Best lucky, I hope you have a great experience and write about it here!
I will and I have nothing vested in making it out to be something that it isn't . Main reason I even started this thread was that I didn't find to much feedback on here and thought it may help others.
 
Most people have very good luck with them. A few do not and come here to post about it.

Correct, I was lucky enough to visit several shops with UMC 750's ( all old models with Big Door ) and they had lots of hours and made lots of parts and where still happy with them. There were a few known issues that were fixed by HAAS but nothing to scare me off.
 
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I've programmed/run a 750 and talked to other operators, and can confirm machine rigidity suffers when you're operating at more extreme negative Y.

That's what it looked like, and I kinda like the way the local ones do double-column since I've always loved HIllyers but didn't intend to wake empwoer up :D

You have to wonder why they chose a design that's not very rigid to start with tho ? There was nothing on that paper when they put the first mark on it, right ?
 
That's what it looked like, and I kinda like the way the local ones do double-column since I've always loved HIllyers but didn't intend to wake empwoer up :D

You have to wonder why they chose a design that's not very rigid to start with tho ? There was nothing on that paper when they put the first mark on it, right ?
i heard my name...
 
I am well aware of the feedback from some and I must say that the positive feedback I had was way way more than the few negative ones so I guess time will tell.

The ratio of satisfied Haas users to the users who come here to complain about their Haas's is maybe 100:1, 500:1, or maybe 1000:1, who knows. But Haas somehow seems to continue to sell machines.

So either Haas buyers are saps because they don't listen to the complaints here, or Haas makes OK decent machines.

It must be frustrating to some that people still buy Haas's despite their best efforts to spread the word that Haas's should be avoided.
 
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