HSK A-63 on a HAAS, Anyone own/driving this spindle (yet) ?

[MrMachine#1]

The faster you go with RPM on a big-plus the less rigid it is because the spindle bell mouths from centrifugal force, leaving you with more face contact and less taper contact. If you want to go low and slow a 50 taper machine with B-Plus is a very good option. Whether a B-plus or not a 40 taper has its role, its role just isnt monstrous metal removal rates.

Makino bending moment presentation: https://www.makino.eu/resources/content-library/webinars/archive/tool-bending-moment/392
Makino bending moment white paper: https://www.makino.com/makino-us/media/general/Machining-Titanium-Part-2.pdf

Someone asked about gauge length. In our HSK the tool referenced is 4.25" long, in the Cat40 B-Plus it is 3.375".

Getting back to the main point of the Haas HSK spindle... we have been very satisfied so far, much better than there 40 taper offering and well worth it. The machine itself doesnt have the most rigid table but has not caused us any issues thus far, that is not spindle related though obviously.

One thing I would warn of, anyone buying this particular machine and planning to run hard and through chips. The ONLY problem we have had with the machine is the tool changing arm getting contaminated with chips and then crashing itself with a tool into the spindle face. I would suggest getting in front of this if you buy the machine and on day 1 add a coolant flush to the tool arm, then you wont have to straighten and re-align it. Just connect to the existing flood coolant system.

If you want a link to the Sandvik study on HSK and all things spindle interface, give er a google. There is quite a bit of information on the subject going back to the 90's from multiple sources (not just people trying to sell their own system).

Have fun!

 

[Nalynd]

Update - the tool changer is the weak point of this machine.

The toolchanger washdown was not enough, we had to add in a tool washdown in the carosel as well. Which 100% fixed the problem, except now our flood coolant does not have enough pressure AND if someone cleans out the machine and forgets to turn the washdowns back on or bumps one of them out of position you get a tool arm crash in minutes.

To negate this we have added another seperate pump AND we are building a "coolant wall" over the opening from machine to tool carosel. We could add a tool door but since we are adding a pump we figured we would just try that first instead as it is much simpler.

If you are buying this machine beware, dont even bother running it without adding chip contamination mitigation for the tool changer arm and carosel. Otherwise you will get quite good at repairing the tool arm!

 

[Houdini]

Update - the tool changer is the weak point of this machine.

The toolchanger washdown was not enough, we had to add in a tool washdown in the carosel as well. Which 100% fixed the problem, except now our flood coolant does not have enough pressure AND if someone cleans out the machine and forgets to turn the washdowns back on or bumps one of them out of position you get a tool arm crash in minutes.

To negate this we have added another seperate pump AND we are building a "coolant wall" over the opening from machine to tool carosel. We could add a tool door but since we are adding a pump we figured we would just try that first instead as it is much simpler.

If you are buying this machine beware, dont even bother running it without adding chip contamination mitigation for the tool changer arm and carosel. Otherwise you will get quite good at repairing the tool arm!

Guess it depends on how your running the machine.
And if your machines are all sticky and gummy inside.
I have an even worse tool changer, the DM2, but the VF2SS and the DM2 I run indexables hard enough that in a couple months all the paint is gone off the machine in a line at the height of the vises.
But I don't have any issues with chips built up on the tool arm or in the tool changer, but as a part of blowing off parts we take a second to blow the arm off sometimes.
But we also don't blow shit to the left of the machine when cleaning , we try to blow everything to the right because we are used to running carousel machines also.
Interesting issue.


Edit: I guess we cheat also, we bought a bunch of Chinese tool holders for $20-30 each, they have pull studs on them but that's it, they are just used as place holders.
They are loaded in all the empty tool holder spots on side mount machines, they aren't needed in the carousel machines because of the spring loaded cover plates.

 

[Speedie]

All HSK and big plus all have contamination issues with the face. It isnt limited to hsk. Its amazing there arent more issues with them.

 

[boosted]

All HSK and big plus all have contamination issues with the face. It isnt limited to hsk. Its amazing there arent more issues with them.

Many machines (possibly most) with face contact tools have the carousel and tool changer arm behind a door to mitigate the issue, or do a direct swap without an arm like a Hermle or Mikron. Couple that with a good air blast on the interface while toolchanging, and it’s pretty robust.

My Okuma has an exposed tool arm, and it’s gotten chips in the spindle face about half a dozen times in as many years.

None of my German machines have ever had an issue with chips in the HSK63 interface, and two of them run 24/7, lights out (when we aren’t slow).

Seems to me like the issues crop up when you put premium options on an economy platform.

 

[fmari --MariTool-]

All HSK, Big Plus, Capto, and KM can have these issues. But with proper purge, air blast, tool changer guarding, it should not be an issue.

 

[Speedie]

Alot of the HSK63 spindles I have seen from HSD have air purge holes on the face. I have also seen them where the Mfg doesnt have any air interface to the face but the holes are there. I imagine growing up to HSK, Big Plus definitely started off shore of the USA. Owning a machine where the face becomes contaminated can break those itty bitty finger. Which is purely the case with Hitecho spindles but those are mainly robot and router.