1917 Lodge and Shipley

[heviarti]

So, I'm sort of the default machinist at work since I'm the only one with any desire to do it. I started three years back with a lathe I found on the side of the road for $900. I really like the old girl, but the manual for Lodge and Shipley in that era isn't exactly what you'd call informative. I also seem to have some features I haven't seen on any other machine.

It's a selective head 16"x12' from 1917. I have a taper attachment, an original and a shop made steady, and several different styles of tool holder. I've learned to thread on it, though I haven't quite got tapered threads figured out yet. The previous owner was making some type of air operated thing that I haven't figured out the purpose of, and there's some kind of system for attaching bars to the lathe for some purpose the manual doesn't explain well.

I'd like to get some new gears for it, because the ones installed seem to be a bit sloppy. Also, the taper attachment seems to sort of lag, and doesn't seem to make the taper you set on the dial. At 3" per foot, it seems like a 3" shaft should taper to a point at 6", but it doesn't.

I've been told there are some real Lodge and Shipley aficionados here, and I'm hoping someone knows some things.

Tailstock with mystery hole bored in one stud: https://i.postimg.cc/k440JkhS/20220504-133248.jpg

Gear train possibly missing a cover: https://i.postimg.cc/fb2wf7Gx/20220504-133036.jpg

Threading legend. I understand how to set a number of threads to cut, but neither I nor a guy that has been in machine shops since the '40s know what the heck a 'FDS' is. https://i.postimg.cc/qMVpwv5Z/20220504-133044.jpg

Weird, badly explained bar mechanism and previous owner's mystery air operated something: https://i.postimg.cc/k4KpgqvB/20220504-133056.jpg

Opposite end of bar mechanism with slot: https://i.postimg.cc/PqmWLx0s/20220504-133108.jpg

Anyway, the machine has some foibles I'd like to work out of it, but has been a good machine. I'm sure there's an adjustment procedure for the clutch, and as much as I am told they're supposed to leak a little, I'm sure oil literally running out the back of the gearbox when you're half way on the sight glass isn't right. Leftmost gear lever doesn't engage in leftmost position unless you pull it left past the leftmost detent hole. Good luck keeping the tailstock any kind of centered. Need to know how to get the apron off/apart (and hopefully back together) to fix loose stuff inside. Someone's previous braze job is holding a plate loose behind the apron.

Despite these defects, I always seem to be able to make a part that works with it. Last spring we also set up a mill to add to our capabilities, a K&T 2D which I am also learning on. Haven't been able to convince the boss I need a shaper yet, but I am sure as soon as he wants internal splines I'll have to explain it to him again.

Anyway, looking forward to meeting some of the people here who know these machines, and maybe more than the (terse) manual has to say.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

"Mystery hole" is generally a well for white lead center lubricant, from the days before rotating centers were common.

"FDS" is feeds, being expressed in turns per inch as opposed to the now-common inches per revolution.

"Weird bar mechanism" was a feed knockout system. As I recall you could set multiple stops for doing production turning. I think it's shown/discussed in one of the catalogs here (been a while since I've flipped through them):

Lodge & Shipley Machine Tool Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

Andy



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[johnoder]

"FDS" as shown on your 16 are easily converted to the modern expression by dividing in to 1

Like the "128" finest feed on your 16 - convert that by dividing in to 1 to get the modern expression of .0078

Might be helpful in learning about the "manufacturing" add ons that were available



The 16" page from 1916 - thanks to Mike C



Oil - if lathe is actually level and oil runs out, its too full. Sight glass to be disregarded as needed. HS and clutch share the same oil level. Clutch actuation enters oil chamber via a packing gland which on my 24" tended to drip - so I had a drip can. Maybe I can dig up adjustment info on this cast iron cone clutch job

ON EDIT

Don't know about adjusting but here is some clutch related work on my 24

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...-old-l-s-clutch-work-115719/?highlight=clutch

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...-selective-head-work-112298/?highlight=clutch

have fun

Here is the clutch parts page

 

[heviarti]

Yeah, that's the vague picture I saw. Doesn't really give you a good look at it or suggest how it works. I think I downloaded the same book from vintagemachinery. It would be nice to be able to set something to stop the thing when threading close to the head.
As to 'modern expression' I don't think I've used either. I just know they're all too fast to make a decent finish, and the previous owner commented to the same effect when I ran into him recently. Roughly half the lowest speed would probably be about right. It makes me wonder if there is a way to replace one of the gears with another with a planetary inside to get it closer to a reasonable speed.
As to the clutch, it's nice to see something about it, but there still must be an adjustment procedure of some sort. I have to lean on the handle when I kick it out to make it stop. Maybe that's the intended behavior. I'm not sure.

 

[john.k]

To get a kickout while threading (leadscrew) you basically need one of the high speed threading attachments that were made by third parties for most popular lathes............Most clutches have a threaded ring to adjust the pressure,those without may have individual screw adjustment of operating arms or some such .......every clutch will have a wear adjustment in the assy somewhere.

 

[johnoder]

Adjusting clutch



This is in the " 1920 manual" on Vintage Machinery under Lodge & Shipley

Sounds like the same "nut" I had to cut in half after various PO's beat it to death

It goes without saying that when L&S says "spanner" that it likely means you need to MAKE ONE

Here is one I made as the need arose further into clutch

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

The production stops kick the feed rod out, not the lead screw, so can't be used for threading.

Most lathes of this vintage do have fast feeds. The philosophy back then was use a much wider cutting surface on the tool than what became popular later on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[johnoder]

Roughly half the lowest speed would probably be about right. It makes me wonder if there is a way to replace one of the gears with another with a planetary inside to get it closer to a reasonable speed.

Here is what one PO did to slow feed down - but one would have to disable such to cut useful threads



As to slow lathes and fast feeds, it was the norm for a long time - so well illustrated here at American Tool Works in 1915. The lathes went slow but the feeds were not slow

 

[DanLinsch]

The production stops kick the feed rod out, not the lead screw, so can't be used for threading.

Most lathes of this vintage do have fast feeds. The philosophy back then was use a much wider cutting surface on the tool than what became popular later on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Yep, that's how my Nardini works. Many times I've wished it had a kickout for feeding, but, oh well.


Dan

 

[Bdculver]

So, I'm sort of the default machinist at work since I'm the only one with any desire to do it. I started three years back with a lathe I found on the side of the road for $900. I really like the old girl, but the manual for Lodge and Shipley in that era isn't exactly what you'd call informative. I also seem to have some features I haven't seen on any other machine.

It's a selective head 16"x12' from 1917. I have a taper attachment, an original and a shop made steady, and several different styles of tool holder. I've learned to thread on it, though I haven't quite got tapered threads figured out yet. The previous owner was making some type of air operated thing that I haven't figured out the purpose of, and there's some kind of system for attaching bars to the lathe for some purpose the manual doesn't explain well.

I'd like to get some new gears for it, because the ones installed seem to be a bit sloppy. Also, the taper attachment seems to sort of lag, and doesn't seem to make the taper you set on the dial. At 3" per foot, it seems like a 3" shaft should taper to a point at 6", but it doesn't.

I've been told there are some real Lodge and Shipley aficionados here, and I'm hoping someone knows some things.

Tailstock with mystery hole bored in one stud: https://i.postimg.cc/k440JkhS/20220504-133248.jpg

Gear train possibly missing a cover: https://i.postimg.cc/fb2wf7Gx/20220504-133036.jpg

Threading legend. I understand how to set a number of threads to cut, but neither I nor a guy that has been in machine shops since the '40s know what the heck a 'FDS' is. https://i.postimg.cc/qMVpwv5Z/20220504-133044.jpg

Weird, badly explained bar mechanism and previous owner's mystery air operated something: https://i.postimg.cc/k4KpgqvB/20220504-133056.jpg

Opposite end of bar mechanism with slot: https://i.postimg.cc/PqmWLx0s/20220504-133108.jpg

Anyway, the machine has some foibles I'd like to work out of it, but has been a good machine. I'm sure there's an adjustment procedure for the clutch, and as much as I am told they're supposed to leak a little, I'm sure oil literally running out the back of the gearbox when you're half way on the sight glass isn't right. Leftmost gear lever doesn't engage in leftmost position unless you pull it left past the leftmost detent hole. Good luck keeping the tailstock any kind of centered. Need to know how to get the apron off/apart (and hopefully back together) to fix loose stuff inside. Someone's previous braze job is holding a plate loose behind the apron.

Despite these defects, I always seem to be able to make a part that works with it. Last spring we also set up a mill to add to our capabilities, a K&T 2D which I am also learning on. Haven't been able to convince the boss I need a shaper yet, but I am sure as soon as he wants internal splines I'll have to explain it to him again.

Anyway, looking forward to meeting some of the people here who know these machines, and maybe more than the (terse) manual has to say.

Fds is the feed rate I used a dial indicator and marked the spindle and chuck to measure the actual feed rate, I engaged the saddle feed nut and turned the spindle by hand. In any rate the higher the thread pitch the slower the feed rate. Yes you are missing the gear train cover. As far as the slack in the gears they have a cast iron bushing in them if there is any slop in them or the bolts it will cause it to have some extra play in it. I had one broken due to a crash bent the bolt and a few other things. I made a new bolt and used brass to make a new bushing. It works great now. I also took the apron apart and machined a little relief on the cross slide gear and the other one and put a spring washer in between them so when you tighten the star to engage the feed and try to stop it it doesn't hang up and cause another crash.

I would love to see some pictures of your taper attachment I need to try and see if I can make one for mine. I have a 1917 18" 72 I have to make a jack shaft for mine the 3ph motor I put on it runs too fast so I need to gear it down. I made a flat belt pulley for mine rather than using 2 or 3 v belts.

 

[Bdculver]

Yeah, that's the vague picture I saw. Doesn't really give you a good look at it or suggest how it works. I think I downloaded the same book from vintagemachinery. It would be nice to be able to set something to stop the thing when threading close to the head.
As to 'modern expression' I don't think I've used either. I just know they're all too fast to make a decent finish, and the previous owner commented to the same effect when I ran into him recently. Roughly half the lowest speed would probably be about right. It makes me wonder if there is a way to replace one of the gears with another with a planetary inside to get it closer to a reasonable speed.
As to the clutch, it's nice to see something about it, but there still must be an adjustment procedure of some sort. I have to lean on the handle when I kick it out to make it stop. Maybe that's the intended behavior. I'm not sure.

If you pull the knurled gear out it slows down the feeds I have not found a good place to run cutting 1018 cold rolled with carbide HSS works well. Brass and aluminum are great with carbide on 10 or 11 with the FDS set to the highest thread count, on the clutch unscrew the cover on the pulley under it is the adjustment nut with the power off loosen the set screw on the nut and the lever engaged spin the pully and tighten the adjusting nut until it starts to grab re tighten the grub set screw and put the cover back on. When you press the lever all the way down ist the spindle break.