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1945 American Pacemaker 16x54 toolroom model lathe disassembly project

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
No, you don’t have to remove that pin to remove the feedbox. I was just trying to save you some trouble if you were not going to remove the feedbox.

I hadn’t thought about manufacturing any, but I have the patterns which I would share. And I’m thinking about making this a separate post.
Great I would definitely be interested in the patterns.
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
No, you don’t have to remove that pin to remove the feedbox. I was just trying to save you some trouble if you were not going to remove the feedbox.

I hadn’t thought about manufacturing any, but I have the patterns which I would share. And I’m thinking about making this a separate post.
tailstock4
A Thread with a catchy title that would get hits on searches for those particular spanners would be useful. L-1 and also the clutch spanner.
Also not forgetting the three point the Rivett spanner. Although only you lucky guys get to own one of those RIVETT'S.
The L-1 spanner is common, and the wrenches are usually missing. I have one of Walters L-2 spanners that I could add the specs in a drawing of for those wanting to make an L-2, then fit your design to those L-2 specs.
Barbera,- Walter's daughter is still making those at a very reasonable cost.
The clutch spanner may be the same that's needed for Monarch clutches and other makes. Can't recall the manufacturer of those clutches. I don't know if the Pacemaker clutch and spanners are proprietary.
Your spanners have a professional touch that I believe some here would like to copy. Nice touch.
Edit.
I added a comma. I had typed Barbera Walters daughter!!! No way:crazy:
Barbera, Walter's daughter is correct:o
 
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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
The disassembly continues... Working on the apron clutch and reverser casting. I want to inspect and clean the assembly but cannot figure out how to get the shaft that does not have the lever attached to it out. The lever unit seems to have a lock collar on it which should be straight forward to remove. The non-lever shaft looks like it has some sort of brass/bronze pin in the bottom that may be holding it in? I see this same arrangement on my tailstock assembly for holding in the quick lock shaft. Is this something I have to drill out or should I just clean the best I can and leave alone? Pictures are attached.

Thanks as aways.
 

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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
Figured it out on my own. It was so gummed up I thought that the bronze pin was holding things together, turns out not to be the case. It was just filth holding it together.

Question on thread turning dial, what should the shaft be lubricated with? There are no oil ports. Pictures attached.
 

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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
Finding some more time to tear down the lathe. Was able to get the apron off this afternoon. Pretty sure it will need complete disassembly to get it clean. Any tricks to doing this or pretty much start removing bits?
 

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eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
Just start pulling and scrubbing. Take photos as you go, makes things easier come reassembly time. I went through one about 10 or 12 years ago when we reconditioned the machine. Totally worth it; some of the best lathes ever made.
 

tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Finding some more time to tear down the lathe. Was able to get the apron off this afternoon. Pretty sure it will need complete disassembly to get it clean. Any tricks to doing this or pretty much start removing bits?
I just lubricate my thread dial with way oil. I prefer to use Schaeffer 160 Moly lube on all my machines. It is an ISO 68 oil. It has all the original tackifiers of the old way oils – which is a fancy way of saying it sticks to things. It also has a little moly in it. When you put the stuff in the machine, you can physically feel the friction reduction versus say a Mobil way oil. The only drawback I’ve found to this oil is its price. Even so, I think it is worth it on these old machines.

Regarding your question about disassembling your apron, for my machines that I disassemble, I start with a fresh piece of 4x8 particle board that I reinforce with 2x4’s to make a table. With something like the apron, I’ll draw an oversized picture of it on the particle board or sometimes I’ll lay down poster board to draw on.

On most of the assemblies like the apron, you start the disassembly from the outside working in. On the inside of the apron, you start on the top and work down. When you take one of these things apart, you are not just trying to disassemble it, but you are also trying to establish an order of assembly. So when you pull a shaft and its gear assembly out of the apron, you reassemble in our hands in the same orientation as it was in the apron. Then take these parts and set them on the picture you drew of the apron in the location they came out being sure to keep the orientation on the drawing as it was in the apron. You also want to have the apron facing the same direction as your drawing so there isn’t any transposing.

Number each sub-assembly on your drawing in the order it was removed. When you get the apron completely disassembled, you’ll have a 1 through n list of sub-assemblies and their order of disassembly. When you are ready to reassemble, then you have the order to follow in reverse.

As you disassemble in this fashion, you may find out something else has to come off first. Be sure to go back and correct the numbering on your drawing.

For each of the sub-assemblies, you can clean every piece and part of the sub-assembly and then put the cleaned part back on the drawing (always careful to keep the orientation the same.) Sometimes, I will put the cleaned and reassembled sub-assemblies in zip-lock bags to keep contaminants out until assembly.

Tyrone Shoelaces once said there were only two rules on working on old machines. The first rule is don’t break anything and the second is don’t lose anything. This is so true; I’ve always remembered it.

I personally rarely take pictures as I find I don’t need them for reassembly because after you’ve cleaned, inspected, and repaired anything on these parts, you’ll know them by heart. And I’ve always found reassembly to be far easier than disassembly. However, pictures never hurt and I sometimes wish I had taken more. Not necessarily for assembly purposes, but they could sure help sometimes to better answer questions about the machine as years go by.

A couple things to check on while working on an apron would be the feather key inside the bevel gear housing that slides back and forth for feed directional change. This little feather key can wear depending on how hard the machine was used and the environment it was used in. If there is any visible wear, I change it. I also replace all the bearings in the apron. It’s usually not that expensive to do and in the Pacemaker’s case, they’ve been in there almost 80 years.

Amazingly even after 80 years and a world war, my machine had very little wear on anything in the apron.
 
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eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
I like taking pictures for the same reason you mentioned making the drawings. Shows exactly how things were assembled as well as the order of disassembly. I used to make drawings when working on things too. Then digital cameras arrived. Now I don't make drawings unless I need a blueprint. The pictures are much MUCH faster for assembly/disassembly tasks.
 

tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
I like taking pictures for the same reason you mentioned making the drawings. Shows exactly how things were assembled as well as the order of disassembly. I used to make drawings when working on things too. Then digital cameras arrived. Now I don't make drawings unless I need a blueprint. The pictures are much MUCH faster for assembly/disassembly tasks.
I can see your point. I guess old ways die hard. :)
 

eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
Oh, and also check all the oil seals on the feed shaft, leadscrew etc. Now is the time to change them if necessary. You may need to repair some of the sealing surfaces as well.
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
Thank you everyone for all the tips and pointers. Will be starting the tear down this weekend. I have noticed one thing, a couple of the shafts have flat head lock screws in them and are super tight. I am soaking them with Kroil but would welcome any specific advice on how to get those buggers out with tearing them up. It would have been nicer if they had used allen head lock screws. I am guessing here that these nuts need to come off before I can attempt to unscrew the bell shaped covers that surround the feed levers on the front of the apron.
 

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eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
Those old impact screwdrivers (the ones that twist when they're hit with a hammer) work pretty good on stuff like that. Make absolutely certain that the driver blade fits the screw snugly if at all possible. Huge percentage less chance of damaging the screw that way. You should be able to tell about disassembly order if you have a parts manual. I'm no help there, I haven't had one apart in a while and I don't retain that stuff long.
 

Greg Menke

Diamond
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
Baltimore, MD, USA
There are air impact screwdrivers, fittings for an air impact gun. Its an evolution on the old style ones you hit with a hammer, but instead an air impact tool does the hitting. The idea is you apply the air impact gun with one hand and turn the tool with the other, adjust impact force etc to be suitable. Apparently helpful because you can very exactly apply torque to the fastener while the impact gun blasts away, forcing the screwdriver blade into the fastener.

I've run into a couple ATW dutchman screws also. Use your good screwdrivers and get the right fit before putting the force to it. I've not had to go beyond using a wrench on the square screwdriver shank.
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
There are air impact screwdrivers, fittings for an air impact gun. Its an evolution on the old style ones you hit with a hammer, but instead an air impact tool does the hitting. The idea is you apply the air impact gun with one hand and turn the tool with the other, adjust impact force etc to be suitable. Apparently helpful because you can very exactly apply torque to the fastener while the impact gun blasts away, forcing the screwdriver blade into the fastener.

I've run into a couple ATW dutchman screws also. Use your good screwdrivers and get the right fit before putting the force to it. I've not had to go beyond using a wrench on the square screwdriver shank.
Unfortunately no matter what I tried after 77 years of being in one place they were not budging. Had to drill them out enough to allow me to collapse and extract them, will have to now find replacements. All part of the learning process I suppose.
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
Another good day. I have run into one issue, not sure how to remove the 2 oil plunger units. As Tailstock4 mentioned there are a few bearings that need to be replaced. Are there any issues with replacing the existing open bearings with ones that are sealed?
 

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tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Another good day. I have run into one issue, not sure how to remove the 2 oil plunger units. As Tailstock4 mentioned there are a few bearings that need to be replaced. Are there any issues with replacing the existing open bearings with ones that are sealed?
It looks like you are making progress.

The two oil plungers come out from the inside. There is a plug and then a spring and then the plunger. At the top there is a bronze guide which also acts as a crude seal.

As far as replacing the bearings in the apron, I believe I put all the ones in the apron back new as I found them. The only place in the lathe that I departed from this practice was on the feedbox on the end that is inside the quadrant box. I’ve enclosed a picture of these. My thinking was that the originals were open and in leaving the shields on this one side might help keep dirt and contaminants out. I did this on all the outboard bearings of this end of the feedbox.

I also enclosed a picture of one modification I made to the saddle. On the taper attachment end of the saddle there are two pipe plugs. These plug the long oil galleries in the saddle. I added two oiler cups in place of these plugs. This allows me to easily fill these large galleries externally, but more importantly it allows these long galleries to vent air allowing oil to get to the back ways quicker and reducing the chance of air lock.


IMG_0632.jpg IMG_0633.jpg
 
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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
It looks like you are making progress.

The two oil plungers come out from the inside. There is a plug and then a spring and then the plunger. At the top there is a bronze guide which also acts as a crude seal.

As far as replacing the bearings in the apron, I believe I put all the ones in the apron back new as I found them. The only place in the lathe that I departed from this practice was on the feedbox on the end that is inside the quadrant box. I’ve enclosed a picture of these. My thinking was that the originals were open and in leaving the shields on this one side might help keep dirt and contaminants out. I did this on all the outboard bearings of this end of the feedbox.

I also enclosed a picture of one modification I made to the saddle. On the taper attachment end of the saddle there are two pipe plugs. These plug the long oil galleries in the saddle. I added two oiler cups in place of these plugs. This allows me to easily fill these large galleries externally, but more importantly it allows these long galleries to vent air allowing oil to get to the back ways quicker and reducing the chance of air lock.


View attachment 374915 View attachment 374916
Tailstock4

Ok still stumped on the plungers. Are there set screws holding the bodies in or is it just 70 years of being installed and not wanting to come out? I was thinking it was the screws above them in the picture attached. Also do you have a specific place you source bearings and seals from? Not a lot of industry where I live so hard to find these old bearings and seals locally.
 

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tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Tailstock4

Ok still stumped on the plungers. Are there set screws holding the bodies in or is it just 70 years of being installed and not wanting to come out? I was thinking it was the screws above them in the picture attached. Also do you have a specific place you source bearings and seals from? Not a lot of industry where I live so hard to find these old bearings and seals locally.
I believe the two little screws are just plugs for drilled oil passages. Go ahead and pull them out. The two larger screws are the ones for the oiler plungers. I do remember something about them being a little difficult but not exactly what. What I can’t seem to remember is if there was an O-ring in the bronze bushing at the top.

Thanks for posting pictures. The more pictures the better for jogging my memory of something I worked on several years ago.

Sometimes I order bearings from EZ Bearing. The fellow I talk to there is Daryl. He is pretty good at finding old bearings and is often aware of options. I’ve also used a place called Locate Ball Bearings. The prices are good, but I’ve had mixed results with the quality.

I do recommend putting back good quality bearings such as SKF or Koyo which are Japanese.
 








 
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