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1945 American Pacemaker 16x54 toolroom model lathe disassembly project

tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
The plugs reminded me of a couple more things. There are some of these plugs on the front and the back of the saddle and maybe in the middle. Be sure to pull them all out and flush with solvent or brake cleaner. Everyone is a harbinger of dirt or gunk.

Also I can't remember if there are any check balls for the pump but be on the look out just in case and note their location.
 
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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
I am waiting for some tools to help break the screw plugs free so not a lot of progress on the apron. Any advise on removing the bells that are threaded into the apron body? I have the outer portion pulled off but not sure how to pull the inner portion. I tried using a strap wrench like I did on the cross slide screw assembly but no joy. I need to remove at least one to be able to remove the large gear for cleaning.

I did start prepping to remove the saddle by removing the way wipers and it appears that there are no inserts or wipers just the shells. What should be inserted in the cavities? They were filled with gunk. I have not done any measuring of way wear but I am a little worried on what I am seeing on the guide shells.
 

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tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
I am waiting for some tools to help break the screw plugs free so not a lot of progress on the apron. Any advise on removing the bells that are threaded into the apron body? I have the outer portion pulled off but not sure how to pull the inner portion. I tried using a strap wrench like I did on the cross slide screw assembly but no joy. I need to remove at least one to be able to remove the large gear for cleaning.

I did start prepping to remove the saddle by removing the way wipers and it appears that there are no inserts or wipers just the shells. What should be inserted in the cavities? They were filled with gunk. I have not done any measuring of way wear but I am a little worried on what I am seeing on the guide shells.
The longitudinal clutch the housing comes off by loosening the clamp bolt and loosening the set screw on the side. You may have to put a screwdriver in the split to spread it a little bit, but it will pull off.

The shafts that go into the apron that unscrew – I seem to remember them being held by dutchman screws on the inside. Regarding the slotted screws that are giving you trouble, I remember making a couple of my own screwdriver blades out of 4140 prehard. They tightly fit the slots so you can get some leverage on them. When I went back with these plugs, wherever I could I substituted allen plug for them. But that doesn’t help you get them out initially.

I will have to get a picture of the way wipers I made if you’re interested. They copy the Pratt & Whitney 12C wipers as they are about the best I’ve seen. They were two pieces – a large piece with a cut piece of F5 felt. Then on the outside of this way wiper is a bronze beveled scraper, a thinner piece of felt and the last cover that all bolts together with the screws. Then in the top I put a ball oil port on each wiper. They work well assuming you’re not using coolant.
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
The longitudinal clutch the housing comes off by loosening the clamp bolt and loosening the set screw on the side. You may have to put a screwdriver in the split to spread it a little bit, but it will pull off.

The shafts that go into the apron that unscrew – I seem to remember them being held by dutchman screws on the inside. Regarding the slotted screws that are giving you trouble, I remember making a couple of my own screwdriver blades out of 4140 prehard. They tightly fit the slots so you can get some leverage on them. When I went back with these plugs, wherever I could I substituted allen plug for them. But that doesn’t help you get them out initially.

I will have to get a picture of the way wipers I made if you’re interested. They copy the Pratt & Whitney 12C wipers as they are about the best I’ve seen. They were two pieces – a large piece with a cut piece of F5 felt. Then on the outside of this way wiper is a bronze beveled scraper, a thinner piece of felt and the last cover that all bolts together with the screws. Then in the top I put a ball oil port on each wiper. They work well assuming you’re not using coolant.
Definitely interested in seeing what you did for wipers. Thanks.
 

tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Here are some pictures of the way wipers. The order is going from outside the wiper to the saddle is:

Outer shell which is ¼” thick

Scraper
Felt
Inner shell which is ½” thick
2 felts

The thin outer shell and its felt was the original way wiper. The rest I added.

IMG_0635.jpg IMG_0636.jpg IMG_0637.jpg IMG_0638.jpg IMG_0231.jpg
 
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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
Have the saddle off now and it does not look like good news in the wear department. Some pretty deep scratches on the front way. Every oil passage was clogged with gunk. A little depressing. I did manage to find the dutchman screws for the apron friction housings tailstock4 referred to so hopefully, when the correct sized pin spanner wrench arrives this week, I'll be able to pull those final pieces off the apron. Still working on making some very large blades to remove the plunger bodies, the are not wanting to budge at all and there also appears to be some sort of sealant around them, the same sealant that is around the hard copper oil lines. The thrust bearings for the friction housings have some staining on them, probably from the water in the coolant but they seem to still be smooth. Don't really want to have to try and source those. Some more pictures attached. Will have some additional pictures of the saddle way condition tomorrow.
 

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SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
More pictures. Love using a needle scaler vs any chemical stripper or sanding.
 

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tailstock4

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Yes, it looks like a lot of old Pacemakers – scored and a little worn. One thing about the Pacemakers is that they were large enough and heavy enough that they were worked hard for decades. It’s hard to find one that hasn’t been.

The good news is that because of the softer chilled ways and double V-ways, they tend to wear evenly which can make them still quite usable. But, even so, I’ve seen a few that were wore so much that the half-nuts were dragging on the lead screw and the saddle was riding on the inside tailstock way.

You didn’t say originally whether you had set up this machine and ran it. One of the first things I do with an old machine is to level it and run it for a while to see what kind of tolerances it might hold and what kind of unseen problems it might have – in other words “what am I getting myself into?”

Provided it wasn’t worn to the point that it didn’t have some of the conditions I stated above, you may be able to clean it and check scrape it. (I believe this is what they call it when you take a couple of passes and stone it to try to check the continuation of the scoring but not trying to change the alignment. But there are others that know more about this than me.)

If you decide to rebuild it, I can tell you that I underestimated a couple of things on mine. The sheer size and weight of the Pacemaker means everything you do has to be rigged on and this can get old. Also, the number of details that must be attended to for a rebuild seems almost endless. In the end it probably makes little sense from a financial standpoint, but a Pacemaker can be worthy of your efforts if you decide to go that direction.

I may not be answering a question that you asked. I don’t recall seeing what your intentions or expectations were for this machine.
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
Yes, it looks like a lot of old Pacemakers – scored and a little worn. One thing about the Pacemakers is that they were large enough and heavy enough that they were worked hard for decades. It’s hard to find one that hasn’t been.

The good news is that because of the softer chilled ways and double V-ways, they tend to wear evenly which can make them still quite usable. But, even so, I’ve seen a few that were wore so much that the half-nuts were dragging on the lead screw and the saddle was riding on the inside tailstock way.

You didn’t say originally whether you had set up this machine and ran it. One of the first things I do with an old machine is to level it and run it for a while to see what kind of tolerances it might hold and what kind of unseen problems it might have – in other words “what am I getting myself into?”

Provided it wasn’t worn to the point that it didn’t have some of the conditions I stated above, you may be able to clean it and check scrape it. (I believe this is what they call it when you take a couple of passes and stone it to try to check the continuation of the scoring but not trying to change the alignment. But there are others that know more about this than me.)

If you decide to rebuild it, I can tell you that I underestimated a couple of things on mine. The sheer size and weight of the Pacemaker means everything you do has to be rigged on and this can get old. Also, the number of details that must be attended to for a rebuild seems almost endless. In the end it probably makes little sense from a financial standpoint, but a Pacemaker can be worthy of your efforts if you decide to go that direction.

I may not be answering a question that you asked. I don’t recall seeing what your intentions or expectations were for this machine.
Unfortunately I made the classic beginners mistake of buying site unseen as it had already been pulled from the selling shop. I don't have 3 phase power at my shop and sent the Fairbanks Morse motor out to be checked both for usability and if they could determine HP rating so I would know what size rotary converter to purchase (no data tag on motor that I could find). I do know that it has a 5 belt pulley so I am guessing 5 and certainly no more than 10 HP. I will check the the tailstock ways to see if there is any obvious wear.

This whole endeavor is just to teach myself how to run a lathe believe it or not. I am a retired software engineer and now am a hay farmer ( i.e mostly a mechanic) and thought it would be a good challenge to buy a old machine, tear it down, clean it up, and see what I could do with it. I am not looking to make money with it as I am not a professional nor even amateur machinist but much more of a tinkerer. I was expecting nothing from the machine in terms of being super accurate after 77 years of work and some obvious neglect. I do appreciate how it was built and the era it came from and what it may be capable of doing and would like to try to get it back close to it former capabilities. I also respect that it does not care about me and will punish me for mistakes and carelessness.

So in summary this is just an adventure and we'll see where it takes me. I have the means to fund the project and fortunately am not dependent on the machine for my living. Once I have the saddle and apron back together I can inspect and report on just how bad things are in the way department and the make a determination of how far I am willing to go to get it back to decent shape. I have not investigated if there are any shops within reasonable distance that could take on something like regrinding the ways and the saddle or maybe if the ways are still relatively even just applying turcite to the saddle. I did inspect the gear box and there is no play in any bearings, no noticeable wear on any of the gears, all the speeds engage, and all the teeth are present. After I get the saddle back together the change box will be the next item to tackle.

I know this all sounds crazy but what the heck else am I going to do over the winter after hay season is over and before maple season begins.

Thanks again for all your comments, instructions, and advice, they are very much appreciated.
 

86turbodsl

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
MI, USA
The blind taper pin I was referring to is in the first picture. As mentioned, it holds the outer spacer of the angular contact bearings. If you pulled this pin when you were trying to get the lead screw out, you may have created misalignment of the bearing or the spacer which could have made reinstallation difficult.

Also, the second picture is of the end plugs. These all must be removed when you get to the disassembly of the feedbox to gain access to the various shafts.

On the back side of the feedbox, there is a plate with several taper-headed screws in it. Behind this plate is a reservoir for all the different oil passages. There are quite a few. Each one has a pipe cleaner that is of a specific length for that tube. Shorter ones deliver oil quicker than the longer ones. I tried to duplicate the type and length of these cleaners. They work a little like a crude meter valve. Each copper tube goes to a bearing or set of bearings where it’s brad riveted to the casting, cut to an angle and taper, then the end of the tube is bent over to the race of the bearing. This allows the oil to drip to the races of the bearing. There are quite a few of these.

As far as getting the feedbox off the lathe, I use a forklift under the feedbox and then slid it off onto the forks.

I’ve also included some pictures of wrenches I made for the Pacemaker. The large one is a L-1 for the spindle. The other is of a spanner wrench that is needed to adjust the clutch for the spindle. (There is a picture of what I am talking about.) Another is an L-0 spanner wrench for the Rivett spindle. I included a picture of it because I like my design and if I were to make any more, this is the design I would use. It can be held captive on the nut (meaning no risk of dropping it), or it can be used without engaging it fully and using one lug as a conventional spanner. The next to the last picture is the wrench disengaged only using one lug. The last picture is the wrench fully engaged - meaning the wrench is captive.

View attachment 372798 View attachment 372802 View attachment 372805 View attachment 372806 View attachment 372807 View attachment 372808 View attachment 372810 View attachment 372809
OH MY! That is a beauty of a Pacemaker. Wish mine looked that nice.
 

Greg Menke

Diamond
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
Baltimore, MD, USA
Unfortunately I made the classic beginners mistake of buying site unseen as it had already been pulled from the selling shop. I don't have 3 phase power at my shop and sent the Fairbanks Morse motor out to be checked both for usability and if they could determine HP rating so I would know what size rotary converter to purchase (no data tag on motor that I could find). I do know that it has a 5 belt pulley so I am guessing 5 and certainly no more than 10 HP. I will check the the tailstock ways to see if there is any obvious wear.

This whole endeavor is just to teach myself how to run a lathe believe it or not. I am a retired software engineer and now am a hay farmer ( i.e mostly a mechanic) and thought it would be a good challenge to buy a old machine, tear it down, clean it up, and see what I could do with it. I am not looking to make money with it as I am not a professional nor even amateur machinist but much more of a tinkerer. I was expecting nothing from the machine in terms of being super accurate after 77 years of work and some obvious neglect. I do appreciate how it was built and the era it came from and what it may be capable of doing and would like to try to get it back close to it former capabilities. I also respect that it does not care about me and will punish me for mistakes and carelessness.

So in summary this is just an adventure and we'll see where it takes me. I have the means to fund the project and fortunately am not dependent on the machine for my living. Once I have the saddle and apron back together I can inspect and report on just how bad things are in the way department and the make a determination of how far I am willing to go to get it back to decent shape. I have not investigated if there are any shops within reasonable distance that could take on something like regrinding the ways and the saddle or maybe if the ways are still relatively even just applying turcite to the saddle. I did inspect the gear box and there is no play in any bearings, no noticeable wear on any of the gears, all the speeds engage, and all the teeth are present. After I get the saddle back together the change box will be the next item to tackle.

I know this all sounds crazy but what the heck else am I going to do over the winter after hay season is over and before maple season begins.

Thanks again for all your comments, instructions, and advice, they are very much appreciated.

These machines can take a LOT of wear and still do fine work. Perhaps leave questions of way grinding and turcite etc until you have some runtime on the machine, I'd be inclined to bet it will be a better lathe than you are a machinist for quite some time. My 1st ATW was a real mess; big ridge on the front way, quadrant gears chewed up, saddle broken and bolted back together (and consequently a bit twisted). I really enjoyed fixing it up and using it for quite a few years until I came upon its replacement which was a bit fancier and in much better condition, so that was the right time for an upgrade. The better condition machine has improved my work but the principal difficulty in making good parts remains the operator.

Winter evenings in the shop spent messing around on a lathe are wonderful. I use incandescent floods on the machines, after a few hours of soaking up the light the machine starts warming and feels good on the hands. That first powerup of the machine is something to look forward to. :)
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
I am on the final steps on the teardown of the apron. I have everything pulled apart and cleaned or being soaked. Have some bearings on order. Ready for paint after I get this final issue figured out. I have a question about an oil hole in the top of the apron. This hole is on the side where the main carriage wheel housing attaches. I have included pictures. The issue is this hole goes nowhere. Should it go through into the bore? There are no oilers etc on the housing that bolts onto the apron. Just wondering how all of this section is suppose to be lubricated.

Thanks.

--sean
 

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Greg Menke

Diamond
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
Baltimore, MD, USA
On my '36 ATW High Duty one of the two oiler plungers pumps oil around to several of the apron gears including the carriage traverse shaft. The delivery is via holes drilled in the magic spots forming a passage from pump to journal. A previous knuckle-dragger had incorrectly reassembled mine (incorrectly mounted carriage traverse assy), which blocked the passage. OTOH I've not been inside the apron of mine so don't know if they liked to use the copper tubing etc.. Any signs yours has been apart before?
 

SeanShanny

Plastic
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Location
Shaftsbury, Vermont
On my '36 ATW High Duty one of the two oiler plungers pumps oil around to several of the apron gears including the carriage traverse shaft. The delivery is via holes drilled in the magic spots forming a passage from pump to journal. A previous knuckle-dragger had incorrectly reassembled mine (incorrectly mounted carriage traverse assy), which blocked the passage. OTOH I've not been inside the apron of mine so don't know if they liked to use the copper tubing etc.. Any signs yours has been apart before?
Not sure if the apron has been apart before. Most of the holes were undamaged but some lock rings looked like they had been rotated to use another tab so probably likely. There is only one external copper tube for oiling that I can find. There are several copper tubes inserted into the galleys on the top of the apron where the groove is that carries the oil across the apron. Some of the holes are just directly drilled to bores that hold bearings. I just find it odd that there is a hole drilled but if goes to nowhere. I have read other posts where folks have discovered that oil holes on the cross slide had been left out from the factor so who knows.
 








 
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