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2006 VF4 spindle encoder issue

Rapid_Tech

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Location
Toronto
Hey guys,

I've got a weird issue with my 2006 VF4 with a gearbox (Coldfire I model) and wanted to see if anyone else has seen it before. I was getting alarm 237 (spindle following error) for a couple of months. It got worse and worse, especially when it was in low gear. It went from being a minor annoyance to not being able to run the machine at all. Ok, no problem, I'll order a new one. The old style isn't available anymore so I had to buy the new magnetic type along with an adapter cable. I got it installed earlier today and changed the parameters that were listed on the Haas website. Now the fun part, it doesn't work. I called my HFO and spoke with the service tech, I told him what I did it sounded like everything was done correctly but he's stumped as well.

I still get alarm 237 but it only happens in low gear. There are no issues in high gear, spindle load is around 7-8%. In low gear, the spindle will spin up to the commanded rpm but spindle load will be 60-70%. When I hit reset, the spindle will climb even higher before alarming out. WTF is wrong with this POS? I'm assuming the new encoder is good because it works fine in high gear, so the problem must be the parameters.
 
It sounds like the encoder might not have been the problem. Maybe the harness going through the machine to the encoder?

Thinking out loud: the spindle is treated just like any of the other axis motors. I wonder if this might be a problem with the Mocon board. I'd be taking a hard look at the feedback cable from the encoder to the Maincon / Mocon board (not sure if you have a single or triple stack).
 
I'm fairly certain the original problem was the encoder. I had the Haas service tech on the phone and he had me do a few tests and everything pointed to the encoder. Even turning it by hand at 10-15rpm would cause it to alarm. I had asked the tech after I installed the new encoder if the problem could be the cable, he said I would be getting a different alarm then 237.

With the new encoders, it doesn't alarm turning the spindle by hand nor when it's in high gear. Only in low gear do I have a problem. Playing around with some of the spindle parameters helps a bit but I'm not too sure what does what so I don't want to mess anything up.
 
What were the parameters you changed and the before / after values? There may be some multiplier in there where the encoder says one thing and the vector drive is busting a gut trying to correct the spindle position to the old values.
 
What were the parameters you changed and the before / after values? There may be some multiplier in there where the encoder says one thing and the vector drive is busting a gut trying to correct the spindle position to the old values.

Here's the page that I followed:


Parameters that were changed 79, 182, 186, 187, 239 & the "Miscellaneous" Parameters 176, 188, 178

79 Before 4000/ After 4096
182 Before 2000000/ After 2048000
186 Before 499999/ After 511998
187 Before 5000/ After 5120
239 Before 8000/ After 8192
176 Bit 13 Before 1/ After 1
188 Before 1000/ After 500
178 Before 30000/ After 15000

I changed 176 Bit 12 (from 1 to 0) and 177 (from 8000 to 5500) just to see if it would make a difference but it didn't help.
 
79 Before 4000/ After 4096
182 Before 2000000/ After 2048000
186 Before 499999/ After 511998
187 Before 5000/ After 5120
239 Before 8000/ After 8192
176 Bit 13 Before 1/ After 1
188 Before 1000/ After 500
178 Before 30000/ After 15000
It could have been a typo on your post but, 182 should have one less zero than that: 204800

Also: the instructions say to change 79, 182, 186, 187 and 239. You also listed 176, 188 and 178. I realize there's a table at the bottom but, it's not clear that those should have been altered if it didn't list them on a single-encoder machine. Yeah, clear as mud.
 
Yeah, I though 182 might be wrong and tried it with one less zero but no luck. For the 3 parameters at the bottom, I tried the new values, then the old values but no change there either.
 
it's not clear that those should have been altered if it didn't list them on a single-encoder machine. Yeah, clear as mud.
Yeah I like that, only change parameters 1-7 meanwhile,
parameters listed to change 1-9 hahaha
 
It's got to be something in those values. Do you have your original factory values? Is this a regular CAT40, 10K 2-speed machine? My 2004 may have the same values and I can get the original values from my book.
 
It's got to be something in those values. Do you have your original factory values? Is this a regular CAT40, 10K 2-speed machine? My 2004 may have the same values and I can get the original values from my book.
I don't know that I agree, he had a 237 follow error, mostly happened in low gear,
swapped sensing system, applied new values accordingly, and now still has same issue.
tells me its more than likely not or not completely the issue.
I have seen some similar issues and it was the spindle controller.
 
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I don't know that I agree, he had a 237 follow error, mostly happened in low gear,
swapped sensing system, applied new values accordingly, and how still has same issue.
tells me its more than likely not or not completely the issue.
I have seen some similar issues and it was the spindle controller.
Yes, I agree here too. It's tough to diagnose. It deteriorated to not working at all but, now it's working again despite some odd behaviors. I'm not sure what to make of it.

But since I have a similar vintage machine, the problem that gets solved here might be my own someday.
 
It's got to be something in those values. Do you have your original factory values? Is this a regular CAT40, 10K 2-speed machine? My 2004 may have the same values and I can get the original values from my book.
I don't have the original values, I'm guessing the values that I changed were the originals. I think the encoder that I changed was most likely the original.

It's a cat 40, 7500rpm 2 speed machine. I have a 2008 VF2SS that I was able to compare some values to but it ain't exactly apples to apples since the SS doesn't have a gearbox and it has a newer control.

I'll call Haas tomorrow morning and tell them that high gear works okay. That might give them a clue?
 
I don't have the original values, I'm guessing the values that I changed were the originals. I think the encoder that I changed was most likely the original.

It's a cat 40, 7500rpm 2 speed machine. I have a 2008 VF2SS that I was able to compare some values to but it ain't exactly apples to apples since the SS doesn't have a gearbox and it has a newer control.

I'll call Haas tomorrow morning and tell them that high gear works okay. That might give them a clue?
I searched this online, I don't have an old 2 speed macheen, So I don't have context, but I saw a few times belts mentioned as issues to 237.
 
That might give them a clue?
They usually need all the clues they can get :D , luckily my local Haas tech who is their Makino tech, was an electrical engineer at Haas, I always request that dude, I'll even wait for him.
 
Okay, just verified straight off the machine: my original values pretty much match what yours were. 182 is 2000000 (six zeros). The exception is 186 is 30000 (4 zeros) on mine.
 
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I'm looking at that display, squinting to count out the damned zeros. It's soooo easy to miss something like that. You know.

Wait, you're right. It's four zeros. I wrote down a five next to it but, screwed up.
Its 6 inches long.1701837601856.png
 
I was getting intermittent spindle following errors with a 2004 VF2 10000 rpm spindle. It typically happened during a tool change, maybe 1 in every 200 tool changes. The previous owner of my machine had converted to a magnetic encoder. This machine was originally coldfire I (Small LCD) and later I converted it to coldfire II with the full Maincon upgrade. The intermittent spindle following error carried over from coldfire I to the coldfire II upgrade. I tried all kinds of things including spare encoders, all of the encoder wiring, chokes. Nothing worked. Finally I resolved it by going LINE BY LINE through my ORIGINAL parameter list. That is the parameter list that was created by the factory when the machine was built. Its the one that comes with the binder that ships with the machine. If you dont have it your will need to bother your HFO to get HAAS to send you the original parameter list. Make a note of every parameter that is different from your original settings. Its going to take a few hours to do. There will be differences, make a note of them. Pay particular attention to the spindle encoder parameters. Once you revert all of your spindle encoder parameters back to the original values including THE ORIGNINAL NON MAGNETIC ENCODER PARAMETERS), then very carefully and methodically follow the Haas document CHC-Magnetic Encoder - Shafted - Installation Aid document. Make sure convert every parameter carefully line by line to update to the magnetic encoder values. In my case all it took was one parameter to be off and it created this intermittent spindle following error. Since making this correction my machine has worked flawlessly for several years KNOCK ON WOOD lol. Good luck!




 








 
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