510c makes growling noise then alarm 244. zero signal off spindle orient.

[Skubeesnak]

Have been fighting this alarm off and on for a long time. Lately it has a tendency to chuck a tool if not oriented first. Service reps think spindle needs replacing. though they are not completely wrong, It doesn't make the noise until it orients. new spindles are not cheap and it still has a year or maybe more left in it. I only happens on tool changes in case I didn't make that clear. machine is a 2005

 

[noname777]

non

Have been fighting this alarm off and on for a long time. Lately it has a tendency to chuck a tool if not oriented first. Service reps think spindle needs replacing. though they are not completely wrong, It doesn't make the noise until it orients. new spindles are not cheap and it still has a year or maybe more left in it. I only happens on tool changes in case I didn't make that clear. machine is a 2005

Spindle itself or AC motor? Attached picture ...is this how your spindle looks like? Sounds like PLG sensor needs to be checked to see if you have proper A,B and Z voltages, before someone wants to start replacing parts.

Technically, PLC sends ORIENT command, spindle starts to rotate at slow speed till it sees Z pulse to be able to stop at the orient offset angle (if there is one). At the same time NC must report spindle amplifier zero speed. The way I understand Alarm 244: spindle doesn't stop in a certain period of time or after passing Z phase.

Sounds like electrical problem, either PLG or Spindle amplifier (an amplifier is less likely)


244 ZERO SIGNAL OFF IN SPDL ORIENT
(F44)
The spindle zero speed check signal was set
OFF while the orient check signal was ON.
Machine condition:
Feed hold
Address:
Y3A6, X324 from the Spindle Control

 

[Skubeesnak]

I will pull cover and see if it is like the diagram. What Gets me is the growl it makes every time it fails. sounds mechanical. I am not much of a wiz at electrical but can usually limp through with a little guidance. Thanks for responding. I will get back with you. As far as spindle slowing before orienting or direction of orienting, it does not slow down. it also orients in direction of spindle rotation at the time or last programmed direction. usually cw or m3. don't know if that helps?

 

[Skubeesnak]

It is like the one in your picture

 

[noname777]

What about spindle itself. Can you run it at say 50 rpm , 500 rpm, 1000 rpm and 3000 rpm? and what SPINDLE LOAD indicator shows at these speeds? Many times "sounds like mechanical noise" is a problem with PLG feedback, as it tell an amplifier how and where to apply electrical field to create magnetic field.

 

[noname777]

it is gonna have to be PLG sensor or the Amplifier. PLG is sitting on the top of AC motor. You need to open it and check if it has no physical damage. As for mechanical noise? Which part would make it? I circled in red rotary part ( only 4 bearings. In green color is what used to unclamp tool, that part isnt spinning at all.

 

[Skubeesnak]

Spindle loads are non existent throughout the range. or zero. the spindle is not the quietest though as I don't disagree that it could be replaced sometime in the not so distant future. I will pull the cover to sensor and check it out. remember it only makes the weird noise when it throws the alarm. and usually it has completed the M19 and is locked. also it is quite random at times. What do I need to do to get the coupler off at the top of the motor? seems to have threaded set screw type holes that only go half way through. Also thank you for your help. its much appreciated.

 

[noname777]

I have a procedure ( probably different NC control but the idea is the same). That blue rotary joint for coolant, has opposite thread. It would be a good to get oscilloscope from somewhere, run spindle in open loop...say 500 RPM and check A,B,Z phases. May be you have someone around who can do it for you

 

[Skubeesnak]

My control is a 640 m Nexus. Im sure I can round up a scope. Will keep you updated. my coupler is not blue but appears to be similar. what kind of readings should I get from the scope? etc. I can pass info on to smarter folk. lol

 

[noname777]

My control is a 640 m Nexus. Im sure I can round up a scope. Will keep you updated. my coupler is not blue but appears to be similar. what kind of readings should I get from the scope? etc. I can pass info on to smarter folk. lol

if you remove PLG sensor to inspect it, make sure you set the proper gap when putting everything back. It is around 0.1 mm ( eventually gap is adjusted to get proper voltage), and you set it with piece of paper freely moving in between gear and PLG head. As for voltage, Iet me see if I have it somewhere explained. Should be 3 Volts in Amplitude A and B phazes, Z is a single pulse . You gonna have to setup oscilloscope trigger to be triggered by Z.

Pull apart AC motor cover, you will find small PCB somewhere there. IT is PLG pre amplifier. Take a picture, upload it here. it might help.

 

[noname777]

that is how to get OPEN LOOP AC motor run:

Instructions:
I. Open Loop
A. Set the drive in Open Loop (Add 8000 to Parameter SP038)
Note: It is very important that the spindle is in the Open Loop mode before making adjustments. Performing PLG adjustments with spindle not in Open Loop can cause damage to the spindle drive.
1. Press the [MAINTE] button.
2. Press the [MAINTE] soft key button.
3. Press the [PASSWD INPUT] soft key button
4. Type MPARA
5. Press the [INPUT] button.
6. Press the [SETUP] button.
7. Press the [PARAM] soft key button.
8. Press the far right [>] soft key button several times till you see the [SPINDLE PARAM] soft key.
9. Press the [SPINDLE PARAM] soft key button.
10. Press the [↓] page down button several times to page forward untill you see SP038 on the screen. Note: Write down the value of SP038 ex:SP038= 0040
11. Using the cursor arrows move the blue highlight to the correct spindle column and SP038 data field is highlighted blue (may have several spindles in same machine make sure you select correct spindle).
12. Add 8000 to SP038
13. Press [INPUT] button. Example line should look like this if SP038= 0040: Type

 

[Skubeesnak]

Thanks again, I will get on it asap. I will also round up some help to interpret the data. May take a couple of days but I will let you know

 

[noname777]

something similar you should have, just find proper GND, A, B and Z pins on preamp pcb.

 

[Skubeesnak]

Update. finally tore into plg sensor. it had enough crud on it to use a half can of contact cleaner on it. also noticed a little bit of wiggle in the motor to spindle connection. Pulled motor and found the drive key was worn down about a .001 under low end of spec. Never could round up a scope, so made a new key that fit perfectly between motor shaft and spindle receiver. Double checked the plg sensor gap to verify .16 mm gap. Reassembled motor and such then realigned the spindle drive dogs that moved a few thou during the process and went back to work. Machine sounded better than I have ever heard it and no alarm since. I would bet it was the cleaning that fixed it but a maintenance guy that helped thinks it was the keyway.. Regardless, I think its fixed for now. Thanks for you help 777. you certainly gave me the inspiration to dig into it and helped me get it torn apart.

 

[Milland]

I'm going to give a shout-out to noname777 for the excellent help he gave the OP. And good work to Skubeesnak for following through and the update.

The forum needs some sort of "Gold Star" that can be awarded for help above and beyond, and I'd say noname earned one.

 

[Skubeesnak]

I agree and hope to be able to pay back or at least pay it forward..

 

[noname777]

a lot of people under-estimate the importance and presence of PLG sensor. You still want to check signals with scope, just to make sure at MAX RPM pre-amp develops needed 3 Vpp amplitude.

 

[Skubeesnak]

I am in the market for one. not sure if the affordable hand held ones are any good. I would buy in a minute if it was my machine. Company doesn't always concur. I thank you again and will not lose the procedure.