5axis machine with automation

[tcncj]

Hi all

I'm in the market for a 5 axis CNC mill with automation.

- No 3 axis machine with a trunnion. Like a Okuma Genos 5x
- minimum of 500mm in X
- I prefer integrated automation by the manufacturer instead of of relying on a 3th party
- Minimum of 4 pallets
- I won't be doing 24/7 production and not planned on doing so. I just want to run a 8+ hours in the night.
- Full 5 axis simultaneous

I don't care about the control, I think. Programming is by CAM, and I only set WCS/tooloffsets. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Budget is 300k (Euro)

I tried contacting GF Mikron to quote me on a HEM E 500. They are built in China if I'm correct. But from what I heard good machines and good automation integration.
Steptec spindle
But didn't heard anything back for 2 weeks...

Got a quote on a Mazak CV5-500 which seems like a ok machine. Price is lower than expected. And I do like the Y axis position. X, Y and Z are not stacked. Extra rigidity.
Support is good from what I hear locally.
But not off the shelve automation if I'm correct. Relies on 3th party. And a max of 48 tools. Which will be enough because I standardize a lot of tooling. But maybe a little bit on the tight side.

Matsuura MX520-PC4 - 4 pallets - I like how the machines are built. Seems very reliable. Integrated automation.
I know +/- the price.
Downside: the colour haha

DMU50. Tried contacting them some time ago. But never heard anything back. And I don't like the unsupported table.

Any machines/brands are worth checking out?

 

[ToolmakerTH]

Okuma MU-4000V can have a pallet pool (6/10/12 pallet options i believe).

You could try Hermle C400; it is the more economical version of C40 model. Hermle should have a good support network within Europe.

I am not sure if these are within your 300K Euro budget though. Base machine is probably like 250K already.

 

[tcncj]

Thanks for your reply.
The Hermle support over here is the cats pyjamas. But over my budget for my first 5x I think.

 

[Vancbiker]

I’d say look at Makino but not likely to fit you budget.

 

[empower]

Hi all

I'm in the market for a 5 axis CNC mill with automation.

- No 3 axis machine with a trunnion. Like a Okuma Genos 5x
- minimum of 500mm in X
- I prefer integrated automation by the manufacturer instead of of relying on a 3th party
- Minimum of 4 pallets
- I won't be doing 24/7 production and not planned on doing so. I just want to run a 8+ hours in the night.
- Full 5 axis simultaneous

I don't care about the control, I think. Programming is by CAM, and I only set WCS/tooloffsets. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Budget is 300k (Euro)

I tried contacting GF Mikron to quote me on a HEM E 500. They are built in China if I'm correct. But from what I heard good machines and good automation integration.
Steptec spindle
But didn't heard anything back for 2 weeks...

Got a quote on a Mazak CV5-500 which seems like a ok machine. Price is lower than expected. And I do like the Y axis position. X, Y and Z are not stacked. Extra rigidity.
Support is good from what I hear locally.
But not off the shelve automation if I'm correct. Relies on 3th party. And a max of 48 tools. Which will be enough because I standardize a lot of tooling. But maybe a little bit on the tight side.

Matsuura MX520-PC4 - 4 pallets - I like how the machines are built. Seems very reliable. Integrated automation.
I know +/- the price.
Downside: the colour haha

DMU50. Tried contacting them some time ago. But never heard anything back. And I don't like the unsupported table.

Any machines/brands are worth checking out?

where are you located? i can put you in touch with a GF sales guy. out of those options i'd go with GF hands down. they are built in china, but i've worked on several of them in person, and they are VERY well built!

 

[boosted]

I’d say look at Makino but not likely to fit you budget.

Do you have experience with Makino 5 axis verticals? I like Makino horizontals a lot, but the D500 does not have a stellar reputation, and a few years back I was very underwhelmed by their cell controller for standalone machines.

I think sometimes folks toss out recommendations for brands they like, but not necessarily machines that are a good fit. If Makino made a lathe I would not be first in line to buy it...

 

[Vancbiker]

Do you have experience with Makino 5 axis verticals? I like Makino horizontals a lot, but the D500 does not have a stellar reputation, and a few years back I was very underwhelmed by their cell controller for standalone machines.

I think sometimes folks toss out recommendations for brands they like, but not necessarily machines that are a good fit. If Makino made a lathe I would not be first in line to buy it...

Not their verticals but do on their horizontals from old MC 40-5X to MAG1.

 

[boosted]

Not their verticals but do on their horizontals from old MC 40-5X to MAG1.

The MAG machines are awesome, but I don’t think that translates into building a 500mm vertical 5AX. That market is super competitive, and Makino has never really gotten a foothold in it - for good reason IMHO.

 

[Vancbiker]

A little hard to understand. Their 3 axis verts and their 4 axis horis are superb that the 5 axis verts being a miss is odd. If I were still working I’d have to take a closer look.

As far as cell controls goes, the last one I bought was 12-13 years ago. In heads up comparo at the time with Mori, Mazak, and Fastems, the Makino topped them easily. In all fairness the Mori system was very poorly demoed. The AE doing the demo was very inexperienced in the system and stumbled at every question outside of the “canned” demo that he had memorized. However, that’s all it took for us to conclude that if the dealer’s AE struggled to use it, our operators would struggle too. That impression very likely cost Mori the sale of a 2 machine 20+ pallet system.

 

[boosted]

A little hard to understand. Their 3 axis verts and their 4 axis horis are superb that the 5 axis verts being a miss is odd. If I were still working I’d have to take a closer look.

As far as cell controls goes, the last one I bought was 12-13 years ago. In heads up comparo at the time with Mori, Mazak, and Fastems, the Makino topped them easily.

Is what it is. They really don’t compete that effectively with 3 axis anymore. Makino has doubled down on horizontals, and does great in that realm.

As for the cell controller, when I was in the market not that long ago, they did not offer a full blown cell controller for machines with standalone automation. The DA500 didn’t get all of the great features found in the cell systems.

12 or 13 years is a LONG time ago, especially for job shop 5ax technology, which is probably the most quickly growing market segment.

 

[crossthread82]

I would say a DMG DMU 60 eVo but that will likely be way over your budget once you add the pallet pool. 500mm 5ax with automation for under 300k is pretty wishful thinking. For 500k you'd have a lot more options to look at.

 

[Radar987]

Budget is 300k (Euro)

How did you come up with this budget?

The good machines cost more than that before adding the automation.

 

[tcncj]

How did you come up with this budget?

The good machines cost more than that before adding the automation.

Well a Mazak CV5-500 with all options I need is around 185k.
I'm sure I can get automation for the rest of my budget.
The MX520 PC4 is around 300k I'm told by the salesrep.

 

[EmGo]

If Makino made a lathe I would not be first in line to buy it...

You mean, LeBlond-Makino, right ?

 

[Vancbiker]

Yep, in the early days of the Makino buyout of LeBlond, the new Leblond-Makino company continued to sell rebadged LeBlond CNC and manual lathes. Some aspects of the CNC lathes were good and others not. The manual lathes were really nice. Neither product figured in Makino’s long term plan and rights to the LeBlond name sold. The manual lathes are still built and are a separate company that also sells parts for old LeBlond machines.

 

[mkd]

Hi all

I'm in the market for a 5 axis CNC mill with automation.

- No 3 axis machine with a trunnion. Like a Okuma Genos 5x
- minimum of 500mm in X
- I prefer integrated automation by the manufacturer instead of of relying on a 3th party
- Minimum of 4 pallets
- I won't be doing 24/7 production and not planned on doing so. I just want to run a 8+ hours in the night.
- Full 5 axis simultaneous

I don't care about the control, I think. Programming is by CAM, and I only set WCS/tooloffsets. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Budget is 300k (Euro)

I tried contacting GF Mikron to quote me on a HEM E 500. They are built in China if I'm correct. But from what I heard good machines and good automation integration.
Steptec spindle
But didn't heard anything back for 2 weeks...

Got a quote on a Mazak CV5-500 which seems like a ok machine. Price is lower than expected. And I do like the Y axis position. X, Y and Z are not stacked. Extra rigidity.
Support is good from what I hear locally.
But not off the shelve automation if I'm correct. Relies on 3th party. And a max of 48 tools. Which will be enough because I standardize a lot of tooling. But maybe a little bit on the tight side.

Matsuura MX520-PC4 - 4 pallets - I like how the machines are built. Seems very reliable. Integrated automation.
I know +/- the price.
Downside: the colour haha

DMU50. Tried contacting them some time ago. But never heard anything back. And I don't like the unsupported table.

Any machines/brands are worth checking out?

Hermle with automation is a bit of a bodge given that the tool changer is at the back of the machine with then means the pallet changing needs to be through the front. Great standalone machine, though.
GF Mikron E500U with their productivity package (TSC/band paper filter, 7 pallet changer, associated options) to me is a real sweet spot in the market. Very powerful HS spindle, fast direct drive B/C that is dual supported. reasonable price for the 7 pallet pool, unlike most other brands that are in the rapey realm.
Saw a little 3+2 demo on an Okuma genos 460. Operator could swing an angle and probe that point reliably and very accurately so that was good feedback. Not sure how robust the full 5axis side is. I destroyed them in a testcut while i was wielding a Hiedenhain.

 

[LockNut]

You should take a look at the DN Solutions offerings. 2 5 axis machines that fit your budget. The DVF4000 and DVF5000. Both are available with a work changer that offers 6, 8, 10 and 12 pallets. We also have a 40 pallet multi-level RPS that would take you out of your budget but you can check it out anyway, if you like.
The DVF4000 has a 400MM table and the DVF5000 has a 500MM table.