A few bucks to improve Speedio's coolant nozzles...............

[Garwood]

Many years ago running my first ever program on a VMC with flood coolant, it soon became apparent how retarded it was trying to position coolant nozzles to satisfy every tool. I thought that someone needs to invent a programmable position coolant nozzle. I then learned that somebody had. (Spider Cool) There may be others.

I see a lot of inventive ideas here at coolant delivery, but every single one pales miserably compared to programmable coolant nozzle(s).

Sure it really hurts to pay the price. Especially when it comes out of your own pocket like it does for me. The ouch of 2K plus if I remember right. But that pain vanishes almost immediately once it's up and running. You will never-ever regret it.

I have both single and a twin nozzle units. I seldom need or use two nozzles at once, but it is really nice on jobs when the need is there.

Not sure of the mounting location limitations of a Brother machine, but I bet all the smart Brother owners can figure something out.

I can't imagine having just two coolant nozzles even if they are servo aimed.

That won't work in a slot or if a wall of the part blocks the flow.

My first real mill was a 1982 Mori. 40 years ago mori had this shit down. Half a dozen nozzles right around the tool, in the spindle face, spraying down at a shallow angle plus built in air nozzles.

When the nozzles spray down right around the tool, the angle is not a concern unless your tools vary more than a foot.

Programmable coolant probably looks neat until you use a machine that the mtb actually thought through. After that you realize it's just a gimmick and a bad substitute for good design.

 

[13engines]

I can't imagine having just two coolant nozzles even if they are servo aimed.

That won't work in a slot or if a wall of the part blocks the flow.

My first real mill was a 1982 Mori. 40 years ago mori had this shit down. Half a dozen nozzles right around the tool, in the spindle face, spraying down at a shallow angle plus built in air nozzles.

When the nozzles spray down right around the tool, the angle is not a concern unless your tools vary more than a foot.

Programmable coolant probably looks neat until you use a machine that the mtb actually thought through. After that you realize it's just a gimmick and a bad substitute for good design.

Mr. G's fist comment cements my point of praise for programmable coolant nozzles right off the bat. Not being able to imagine having just two coolant nozzles is likely because he's never had two high volume nozzles perfectly aimed every time on every tool no matter how short or long, on every job showing up on a machine. Like I said earlier, I can't imagine needing more then two.

I won't bother with details, but they absolutely work in slots and with walls.

This thread is about folks making attempts (albeit low cost ones) at improving on poorly designed MTB coolant nozzle systems. And I see some interesting designs being offered, but they mostly fall into the category or more-more-more nozzles shooting at all angles in an attempt to work in all circumstances. I offered what I see as the best design solution that eliminates that blast-all-over design profile. I spoke with experience in using them, whereas it's obvious Mr. Garwood speaks without. Calling programmable coolant nozzles a gimmick and a bad substitute for good design, is practically calling me an idiot for using them and offering their praise. I can assure you I'm no idiot, and am the last person to fall for a gimmick. No problem though, as I certainly don't take it personally, and I doubt it was meant that way. :-) I know what works and what doesn't.

One final note on this small debate is that programmable nozzles cut down on unnecessary coolant agitation and mist creation. I seldom need to run the demister for anything other then heavy roughing cuts creating steam or when using HPTSC. Blast all over systems must create tons of mist, as it's impossible for them not to be hitting fast spinning tool shanks, sleeve, nuts etc.

This photo shows the setup on my Mori SV50. The Loc-Line port is air, and the quick connect for coolant wash-down. The nozzles are pretty close in and are controlled by a single knob in easy reach of the operator.

 

[Garwood]

Mr. G's fist comment cements my point of praise for programmable coolant nozzles right off the bat. Not being able to imagine having just two coolant nozzles is likely because he's never had two high volume nozzles perfectly aimed every time on every tool no matter how short or long, on every job showing up on a machine. Like I said earlier, I can't imagine needing more then two.

I won't bother with details, but they absolutely work in slots and with walls.

This thread is about folks making attempts (albeit low cost ones) at improving on poorly designed MTB coolant nozzle systems. And I see some interesting designs being offered, but they mostly fall into the category or more-more-more nozzles shooting at all angles in an attempt to work in all circumstances. I offered what I see as the best design solution that eliminates that blast-all-over design profile. I spoke with experience in using them, whereas it's obvious Mr. Garwood speaks without. Calling programmable coolant nozzles a gimmick and a bad substitute for good design, is practically calling me an idiot for using them and offering their praise. I can assure you I'm no idiot, and am the last person to fall for a gimmick. No problem though, as I certainly don't take it personally, and I doubt it was meant that way. :-) I know what works and what doesn't.

One final note on this small debate is that programmable nozzles cut down on unnecessary coolant agitation and mist creation. I seldom need to run the demister for anything other then heavy roughing cuts creating steam or when using HPTSC. Blast all over systems must create tons of mist, as it's impossible for them not to be hitting fast spinning tool shanks, sleeve, nuts etc.

This photo shows the setup on my Mori SV50. The Loc-Line port is air, and the quick connect for coolant wash-down. The nozzles are pretty close in and are controlled by a single knob in easy reach of the operator.

View attachment 380595

Go you!

$4800 in nozzles. To spray less coolant. Gotcha.

I am solidly in the camp of folks that kinda like more coolant. I don't usually spray it at things that make more mist and I haven't touched the rigid nozzles on any of my mills after the first adjustment. I do like that extra coolant for keeping my fixtures and table clean.

So you enjoy your $4800 nozzles and I'll keep enjoying my $25 nozzles.

 

[Vancbiker]

Programmable nozzles are neat and good until they aren’t. I have experience with a couple flavors of them and in both cases they’ve gotten jammed with chips or fine shit and stopped moving. Then along comes the tool or operation that needs accurate coolant aim and things go bad. At the end of it all, through the spindle or a serious flood have been the best for process reliability, IME.

 

[wmpy]

Mr. G's fist comment cements my point of praise for programmable coolant nozzles right off the bat. Not being able to imagine having just two coolant nozzles is likely because he's never had two high volume nozzles perfectly aimed every time on every tool no matter how short or long, on every job showing up on a machine. Like I said earlier, I can't imagine needing more then two.

I won't bother with details, but they absolutely work in slots and with walls.

This thread is about folks making attempts (albeit low cost ones) at improving on poorly designed MTB coolant nozzle systems. And I see some interesting designs being offered, but they mostly fall into the category or more-more-more nozzles shooting at all angles in an attempt to work in all circumstances. I offered what I see as the best design solution that eliminates that blast-all-over design profile. I spoke with experience in using them, whereas it's obvious Mr. Garwood speaks without. Calling programmable coolant nozzles a gimmick and a bad substitute for good design, is practically calling me an idiot for using them and offering their praise. I can assure you I'm no idiot, and am the last person to fall for a gimmick. No problem though, as I certainly don't take it personally, and I doubt it was meant that way. :-) I know what works and what doesn't.

One final note on this small debate is that programmable nozzles cut down on unnecessary coolant agitation and mist creation. I seldom need to run the demister for anything other then heavy roughing cuts creating steam or when using HPTSC. Blast all over systems must create tons of mist, as it's impossible for them not to be hitting fast spinning tool shanks, sleeve, nuts etc.

This photo shows the setup on my Mori SV50. The Loc-Line port is air, and the quick connect for coolant wash-down. The nozzles are pretty close in and are controlled by a single knob in easy reach of the operator.

View attachment 380595

That looks very clean for a late '90s (?) machine.

 

[CarbideBob]

Besides the looks so nice to the operator or programmer.. Real tool life is how much different?
Hard maching facts, not I like the way it looks.
Bob

 

[13engines]

Go you!

$4800 in nozzles. To spray less coolant. Gotcha.

I am solidly in the camp of folks that kinda like more coolant. I don't usually spray it at things that make more mist and I haven't touched the rigid nozzles on any of my mills after the first adjustment. I do like that extra coolant for keeping my fixtures and table clean.

So you enjoy your $4800 nozzles and I'll keep enjoying my $25 nozzles.

Sorry, but I didn't realize we were talking about coolant quantity. Regardless... looks like we've got a case of to each their own. Fine by me.

 

[13engines]

That looks very clean for a late '90s (?) machine.

That's because abut five+ years ago it looked like this.


Then about 4+ years ago like this.


All new screws and rails throughout. Full tear down and rebuild. Only thing that didn't end up in pieces was the built in spindle/motor. Last one I'll likely ever do, as this one just about did me in.

I keep telling myself that one day I'm going to do a little show-and-tell on this, but never seem to find the time. Likely no one will care anyway.

 

[13engines]

Besides the looks so nice to the operator or programmer.. Real tool life is how much different?
Hard maching facts, not I like the way it looks.
Bob

Sorry Bob. No hard facts. I'm a one man show, so hardly the time or wearwithall to do traceable studies. The tools are for the most part seeing the best possible coolant coverage a person could hope for. That's gotta help. Many times I'm using the same tools on multiple repeats of the same work. Not unheard of by any means, but that's all the I got.

 

[wmpy]

That's because abut five+ years ago it looked like this.
View attachment 380613

Then about 4+ years ago like this.

View attachment 380614
All new screws and rails throughout. Full tear down and rebuild. Only thing that didn't end up in pieces was the built in spindle/motor. Last one I'll likely ever do, as this one just about did me in.

I keep telling myself that one day I'm going to do a little show-and-tell on this, but never seem to find the time. Likely no one will care anyway.

Beautiful job. It looks new. If you ever do make a post on it, you would have at least one interested reader in me. You mentioned in another post about a dampener on the X axis. Is that what I see in the second picture?

 

[Vancbiker]

.......I keep telling myself that one day I'm going to do a little show-and-tell on this, but never seem to find the time. Likely no one will care anyway.

You should. Would be interesting to read someone else's experience. I did a pair of Mori M300Ls 20+ years ago and a couple Makino MC1516-5X machines about 15 years ago. Big projects those.

 

[Garwood]

a couple Makino MC1516-5X machines about 15 years ago. Big projects those.

We're those the Cat machines you modified?

 

[Vancbiker]

Yes. Replacing the failed turcite under the columns was the biggest part of the job. Had to build a 20 ton capable hoist to lift the column. The column weighs about 25k lbs but a healthy safety factor was desired. I lost track of how many times the column was placed, checked, lifted and scraped. Repeat those steps as many times as needed to get the geometry right

 

[Fal Grunt]

It isn’t a factory option, but Yamazen can hook it up easily enough (if you have a TSC capable machine). Just an air solenoid and a little plumbing into the TSC panel.

The current best-practice for folks using spindle grippers is to run them on air- they can do coolant driven, but they run better on air. Quick 5 second purge either way switches between TSC and TS air if you want to run both.

When did this become an option? When I bought my machine in 2018 through spindle air was not an option, and I was told the brother was not adaptable due to the carbide button used in the system for TSC.

I probably would have spent the $6k on TSC if I could have run both air and coolant.

 

[gkoenig]

When did this become an option? When I bought my machine in 2018 through spindle air was not an option, and I was told the brother was not adaptable due to the carbide button used in the system for TSC.

I probably would have spent the $6k on TSC if I could have run both air and coolant.

Couldn't tell you. Yamazen's West Coast office has been doing it for a couple of years with, as far as I can see, no downside... and often on heavy production machines as well.

This one isn't switching back and forth between air and coolant, but you can see the purge cycle. Slick little spindle gripper application.

 

[13engines]

...You mentioned in another post about a dampener on the X axis. Is that what I see in the second picture?

Yes. Here's a better picture of it. Some twin bearing arrangement with adjustment. I simply dialed out the play but left it free spinning. Pretty much how it was before taking it off the old screw. Wish I knew the science behind it.


My apologies to fellow Minnesotan davidN for OT'ing his post.

 

[Garwood]

Couldn't tell you. Yamazen's West Coast office has been doing it for a couple of years with, as far as I can see, no downside... and often on heavy production machines as well.

This one isn't switching back and forth between air and coolant, but you can see the purge cycle. Slick little spindle gripper application.

Are folks using the Brother through spindle air just for grippers or for milling steel as well? Steel milling is awesome with through spindle air.

 

[crossthread82]

Couldn't tell you. Yamazen's West Coast office has been doing it for a couple of years with, as far as I can see, no downside... and often on heavy production machines as well.

This one isn't switching back and forth between air and coolant, but you can see the purge cycle. Slick little spindle gripper application.

Does it flow enough to drive an air spindle?

 

[13engines]

You should. Would be interesting to read someone else's experience. I did a pair of Mori M300Ls 20+ years ago and a couple Makino MC1516-5X machines about 15 years ago. Big projects those.

I'm pretty comfortable with the mechanics of it all, but wish I had 10% of your Fanuc/Control knowledge.

Yes those are sizeable machines for sure. Interesting Y axis on the M300, and the tool change that goes with it.

Been eyeing late 90's early 20's Mori and Makino Horizontals. Just don't think I have the energy to do another full on rebuild. Problem is it's a sickness I have. Can hardly stop myself once a machine hits my floor. Getting too close to retirement ( a joke I tell myself even though the age is already there) to invest so much money and time. We'll see.

 

[gkoenig]

Does it flow enough to drive an air spindle?

I haven't tested it, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

You 100% need to air purge it. Hermle has demonstrated this with air spindles in their tool changers running through spindle, but they need like a 50 second purge. Having said that, everything about a Hermle is sorta slow, and I think the TSC pump is located approximately 300 meters from the actual spindle, so that likely drives a higher purge time. I think 10 seconds in a Speedy would be plenty.