What's new
What's new

about to make the jump into CNC 2 choices Lagun or KIWA

diesel-xj

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Location
South Texas
Good afternoon. I am about to make the jump into a CNC machine. I have some choices , but I have narrowed it down to 2. First is a mid 80's Lagun 3 axis I think it is a Anilam Crusader??? if anyone can id from the picture it would be great. Second choice is a KIWA 510 Colt. I don't know much about either machine. the KIWA is quite a bit newer running FANUC controls.
The easiest choice is the Lagun, because it has the same physical foot print as the outgoing manual mill it will replace, and it is approx. half the price of the KIWA. The Lagun itself is in very good to pretty good shape and had very light use. the known problems on the Lagun are it has a bad cooling fan in the cabinet, and it has a cracked x-axis servo mount housing. the owner reports that the crack does not affect operation, and it looks to be fixable by removing the servo and the mount and welding up the crack.
The KIWA is supposed to be ready to go, except needing a new battery and re-load the parameters. It also had a light use history. I am not sure how I will get the KIWA into my shop with out basically building a new wall.

I was told that support for the Crusader control may be difficult and that it will most likely need support as time goes by. So are there many differences in programming the Crusader Vs. the Fanuc?? Is it even worth messing with the old Crusader or should it just be scrapped for a new control. How much does it cost to re-fit the Lagun to a newer style control?
I am curious as to what opinions are out there regards either of these 2 machines. I called Lagun and showed them the picture and they think it is a FT-2 Anilam, but they are not sure. Sorry the picture did not come out well. I will most likely go back for a second look at the end of this week, price should be about 2k$ for the Lagun with some tool holders and collets, or just under 4K$ for the Kiwa
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2327.jpg
    IMG_2327.jpg
    86.1 KB · Views: 300
I run Anilam 1100M control, and have found it to be a lot easier than Bridgeport DX32. It is old, but it is a conversational type. Mine has no spindle speed control... the machine doesn't have it. I am certain the control could handle it.
It is supported by Heidenhain, SA and they have been helpful. I purchased on ebay, a tutorial on the programming that really helped.
But, my only warning is that you may well have to be self reliant if something goes wrong.
 
another question, with the Crusader series M control. Can you write a program away from the machine and then import it to the machine when you get to the shop??. I did see that the Lagun Crusader has a rs232 connection. is that any good for importing a file or program?
 
I will be designing and building transmission adapter plates for various small diesel engines to various domestic automatic and manual transmissions for Light trucks. Also turbocharger adapters, and other little knick knacks. I am not sure about the travels on the Lagun, but I think the Kiwa will do it.
most of the plates will either be 3/8" steel approx. 18" x 18" overall dimension, cutting dimensions should be under 16" square. Or 1" aluminum plate for the same application. Same stuff I am doing now on a old Lagun FT1.
 
Sure. Piece of cake. It comes with a floppy drive, which is cheaply upgraded to a thumb drive.
I just write program on windows notepad onto the disc in standard .txt format. I think the machine generates .M format.
It has some very elegant ramp to depth pocket programs. So far as just walking up to the machine and running a job, I'd rather do it on this control than the Haas 2008.
As the peak of on-board sub-routines has seen it's day, and CAD/CAM has seemingly superseded a lot of it... I have discovered the older programs are sometimes quite the time-saver.
My Bridgeport DX-32 is mind-blowing, but difficult to master.
 
I will be designing and building transmission adapter plates for various small diesel engines to various domestic automatic and manual transmissions for Light trucks. Also turbocharger adapters, and other little knick knacks. I am not sure about the travels on the Lagun, but I think the Kiwa will do it.
most of the plates will either be 3/8" steel approx. 18" x 18" overall dimension, cutting dimensions should be under 16" square. Or 1" aluminum plate for the same application. Same stuff I am doing now on a old Lagun FT1.

Well, I think looking at it you probably have plenty of machine there. The Lagun is a solid mill.
That has the Erickson QC tooling, I can't tell if it is 30 or 40 taper... but 1/4 turn with the spanner wrench is nice. Don't even look at an r-8 or manual draw-bolt machine, I'd say.
You will be wanting some bilz tap holders. I use the floating tension and compression holder, and I use the clutched tap holders in it.
The machine looks like a hard-head like my Dah-lih. Can you twist the head clockwise and counterclockwise? And fore and aft? To achieve an angle?
Well, not too important for your purposes, and with a hard-head, you won't have to worry about it getting out of square.
Having a quill is real world stuff world. A lot of guys will knock it. But they are looking from an entirely different perspective.
 
The old crusader I am looking at does not have a floppy that I saw. just about a 40-50 page paperback instruction manual.
Funny you said that about the older machines being simpler. The old guy that owned this machine before my friend got it basically said the same thing. That he was much faster and more accurate on older style machine than the new stuff.
What about integrating a VFD into the system. I only have 220 single phase power in the shop. I am currently running my mill on a home made rotary phase converter that I built years ago, and I made it a pull start, so that is a pretty big PIA. Also I have a VFD for my Lathe, which is PFM ( practically F%^&king Magic). man I really like the VFD. But the VFD salesman could not commit to saying his machine would work the CNC, and the USA made rotary phase converter salesman did guarantee his product to work the CNC.
I just saw a video of a fellow I guess was retrofitting a old brideport, and I think he had incorporated a VFD to control spindle speed. it was pretty neat. This old Lagun is 3 axis, but no speed control.
Are these old Crusader systems hard enough to program that I will need to keep my old manual mill during the learning curve?
I really am in the dark on the CNC stuff, Well in the dark on a lot of stuff as I am self taught on both of the machines I have now.
How do you go about picking a starting point? on a work piece like one of my adapter plates. or do you just start out with a bigger piece of stock than needed and start the machine some random place on a edge???
 
I was running my Bridgeport Boss off a RPC that I put together using a 10 hp motor and a control box from Phase-Craft, on ebay.. The salesman said they make " CNC grade" control boxes and it worked well for me. My control box has a simple on and off switch and is simple to wire and use. Maybe one of those boxes and your old motor would work just as well for you.

Have you seen any machines that have tool changers you could afford? Flood coolant and a tool changer equipped machine are something I'm wishing I had bought first..
 
The old crusader I am looking at does not have a floppy that I saw. just about a 40-50 page paperback instruction manual.
Funny you said that about the older machines being simpler. The old guy that owned this machine before my friend got it basically said the same thing. That he was much faster and more accurate on older style machine than the new stuff.
What about integrating a VFD into the system. I only have 220 single phase power in the shop. I am currently running my mill on a home made rotary phase converter that I built years ago, and I made it a pull start, so that is a pretty big PIA. Also I have a VFD for my Lathe, which is PFM ( practically F%^&king Magic). man I really like the VFD. But the VFD salesman could not commit to saying his machine would work the CNC, and the USA made rotary phase converter salesman did guarantee his product to work the CNC.
I just saw a video of a fellow I guess was retrofitting a old brideport, and I think he had incorporated a VFD to control spindle speed. it was pretty neat. This old Lagun is 3 axis, but no speed control.
Are these old Crusader systems hard enough to program that I will need to keep my old manual mill during the learning curve?
I really am in the dark on the CNC stuff, Well in the dark on a lot of stuff as I am self taught on both of the machines I have now.
How do you go about picking a starting point? on a work piece like one of my adapter plates. or do you just start out with a bigger piece of stock than needed and start the machine some random place on a edge???

Well, lemme see here...
The floppy is in the control, a little sliding door. Should be.
Not certain on the speed control retrofit, but the previous owner of my machine put an air motor on the thing with a reversing air valve with push buttons. So it would do the cranking for him.
I have only a bit over a year as a CNC shop.. but three CNC mills, two lathes. and a bunch of manual stuff.
I bought the training video on ebay. Ok, I bought the $800.00 series, and later bought the one for the anilam control. Both were necessary as I have no resources. And in the end, well worth it.
Start anywhere. Finish where you start. It doesn't matter. Never lose the manual.
Your control should have a 286 processor in it as well, for less than a couple hundred... a 486 is available. I am still running the mighty 286.
This ain't a bad rig. I used to make adaptors for ford drop-ins to jeep transfer cases. It was all drill, tap and bore work as the plates came flame cut. And it was all manual, and by the stack.
So, if those are about the same... well... I see no problems.
The Anilam is g-code or conversational programming... cartoon style.
If you want to get these jobs done... the machine can do them.
But there will be a learning curve. Don't get rid of that manual machine right off, if ever.
 
Cool!
My buddy took a single phase motor, coupled it to a three phase motor...
Drove the three phase with the single phase... and out of the three phase motor 3 phase!
Certainly not the most efficient.
 
Thanks for the reply's. The Kiwa Colt 510 has a tool changer. but until I get my new shop built I am very space limited I guess I will end up with the Lagun and the Anilam crusader M series.
The Lagun has a quick change spindle of some sort I think CAT 40, and a coolant system installed in the base, I am not sure if it is classed as a flood coolant, I don't think it is thru the spindle coolant.

The machines are from a friend of mine since grade school. There are a bunch of machines I think 8 in all. all the turning centers have tool changers, but they are all tooo big for my shop

So to confirm the Lagun FT-2 with Anilam Crusader M series control is G-code? which is considered conversational? and that is good?

Thanks Gcoder05 I just saw the video on the Colt 510, if I could fit it in the shop I think I would go that way. but I just don't think it will fit today. The report on this Colt that I am looking at is the same as what you report, battery removed , so new battery and re-load parameters.
What all is involved in the parameter re-load?????, All the machines my friend got will have the same no battery issue
I will try and get back out to see the machines this week.

one more question. How do the CNC machine controls do in a non air conditioned South Texas coastal environment. I am about a mile from the Gulf of Mexico, we have fog in the winter and Salt spray in the summer.
The new shop will be air conditioned, but that is most likely over a year away. I have been looking for a excuse, if need be I could tighten up my shop walls and air condition it, All this for the sake of the machines of course. Can't have those fancy computers in the salt air.
 
Last edited:
I'm 80 miles from the coast and my machines can't stand the humidity. . Not good for electronics and ways to get soaking wet when a front blows through. I have the 24000 btu window ac units from home depot. They do a good job and only run 800.00

If nothing else close off your walls and run fans and a dehumidifier.
 
that is kind of what I thought on the humidity. I work overseas a lot, when I get ready to go to work I cover every thing in motor oil or transmission fluid, then cover with oil soaked toweling, sometimes it still is not enough, This last winter one of my chucks rusted from the bottom. I have now taken to completely submerging my chuck and rotary table in drum of diesel fuel that is covered.
It will probably be easier to rebuild the shop from scratch than to tighten it up. but I will most likely try the tighten up method. I will have to take a wall out to put in the new Lagun, I guess that will be the time to do it. I have a old 3 ton central unit, but it would be too big, and probably would not run enough to de-humidify well.
 
Thanks for the reply's. The Kiwa Colt 510 has a tool changer. but until I get my new shop built I am very space limited I guess I will end up with the Lagun and the Anilam crusader M series.
The Lagun has a quick change spindle of some sort I think CAT 40, and a coolant system installed in the base, I am not sure if it is classed as a flood coolant, I don't think it is thru the spindle coolant.

The machines are from a friend of mine since grade school. There are a bunch of machines I think 8 in all. all the turning centers have tool changers, but they are all tooo big for my shop

So to confirm the Lagun FT-2 with Anilam Crusader M series control is G-code? which is considered conversational? and that is good?

Thanks Gcoder05 I just saw the video on the Colt 510, if I could fit it in the shop I think I would go that way. but I just don't think it will fit today. The report on this Colt that I am looking at is the same as what you report, battery removed , so new battery and re-load parameters.
What all is involved in the parameter re-load?????, All the machines my friend got will have the same no battery issue
I will try and get back out to see the machines this week.

one more question. How do the CNC machine controls do in a non air conditioned South Texas coastal environment. I am about a mile from the Gulf of Mexico, we have fog in the winter and Salt spray in the summer.
The new shop will be air conditioned, but that is most likely over a year away. I have been looking for a excuse, if need be I could tighten up my shop walls and air condition it, All this for the sake of the machines of course. Can't have those fancy computers in the salt air.

The Anilam I have is the 1100M, I can't remember if they called that the Crusader. But absolutely yes, it eats g-code. As well as M code. I do like the control. The machine it is on is a 5000 pound knee mill. A beast. 5 HP but feels like 10.
So far as learning G-code... I studied a while and then bought the video from Heinz Putz here. The videos are somewhat old... but the content was exactly what I needed as I had to get going.
And yes, I am quite sure you have the Erickson... NMTB 40 taper. You have to stay with NMTB, but they are plenty available. And I like them fine.
I gave I think $5,000.00 for my rig. Then about $3,000.00 for postage as there aren't any locally available CNC's I could find.
 
yes Snowshooze it is a hard head for the z-axis, so no head tramming, it does not tilt, but on the column it goes in and out same as the y-axis when straight, and it rotates left and right on the column,
 
yes Snowshooze it is a hard head for the z-axis, so no head tramming, it does not tilt, but on the column it goes in and out same as the y-axis when straight, and it rotates left and right on the column,

Nice that you can swivel with it. You might be able to hang a shaping attachment to the tail and do some precision shaping...be a whiz to broach key-ways into pulleys and things of that nature.
 








 
Back
Top