Advice on Clausing drill press

[Joe Gwinn]

That's a good point. Also known as a contactor. Needed for 480 Vac, but not for 240 Vac.

An afterthought. Looking again at the schematic, the "starter motor coil" is clearly not a contactor, and is after the contacts a contactor would open and close, so that won't work at all. So it is probably just what the name implies. Which is not needed with the actual dp motor in question.

 

[BillyA]

An afterthought. Looking again at the schematic, the "starter motor coil" is clearly not a contactor, and is after the contacts a contactor would open and close, so that won't work at all. So it is probably just what the name implies. Which is not needed with the actual dp motor in question.

Makes sense, it looks like they have a lot of "general" coverage. Here is "this" but may not be on your model, here is "that" but it may not be on your model....... thanks for all the help and support everyone!!!

 

[Rob F.]

An afterthought. Looking again at the schematic, the "starter motor coil" is clearly not a contactor, and is after the contacts a contactor would open and close, so that won't work at all. So it is probably just what the name implies. Which is not needed with the actual dp motor in question.

You are correct that the "starter motor coil" is not a contactor. It is part of the magnetic contactor (motor starter) and the part that is the MAGNETIC part of a "mag starter".
The coil is the electro-magnetic coil that pulls in the contacts when the start button is pushed. It then holds the contacts together, keeping the machine running after you let off of the start button. It will stay running until the stop button is pushed. Neither of those buttons is shown on the schematic for some reason, maybe that schematic is just for the main 3ø supply?
In this case the coil is line voltage, that is why it is connected to 2 of the main lines. Sometimes the coil is powered by a low voltage transformer so there is no line voltage at the push buttons and elsewhere. Most likely on larger machines with more electronics.
edit to add:
The motor starter and the two speed switch both have a dotted line around them to make a box, this indicates all inside the box is one component. Any time you see the dotted line box around something it is telling you all connections inside that box are all on that one component, not located elsewhere on the machine.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

You are correct that the "starter motor coil" is not a contactor. It is part of the magnetic contactor (motor starter) and the part that is the MAGNETIC part of a "mag starter".
The coil is the electro-magnetic coil that pulls in the contacts when the start button is pushed. It then holds the contacts together, keeping the machine running after you let off of the start button. It will stay running until the stop button is pushed. Neither of those buttons is shown on the schematic for some reason, maybe that schematic is just for the main 3ø supply?
In this case the coil is line voltage, that is why it is connected to 2 of the main lines. Sometimes the coil is powered by a low voltage transformer so there is no line voltage at the push buttons and elsewhere. Most likely on larger machines with more electronics.
edit to add:
The motor starter and the two speed switch both have a dotted line around them to make a box, this indicates all inside the box is one component. Any time you see the dotted line box around something it is telling you all connections inside that box are all on that one component, not located elsewhere on the machine.

I suppose, but the circuit as printed makes no sense - there would be no power to activate the contactor before it was already active, because the motor start coil is downstream from the contactor line switch contacts

 

[BillyA]

I suppose, but the circuit as printed makes no sense - there would be no power to activate the contactor before it was already active, because the motor start coil is downstream from the contactor line switch contacts

Sorry guys, I have nothing to offer on the prints. I'm afraid it's well over my head but I'm definitely reading it with a lot of interest thank you for the time on this.

 

[BillyA]

Here is a picture of the way different presses are to be connected to incoming power according to them.

 

[BillyA]

It could work. Configure for low voltage option.

Beware that the startup surge at 240 Vac may pop the breaker instantly unless you have a way to get the 7.5 hp RPC motor rotating at almost full speed before applying power. This is often done with a small motor whose only purpose is to spin the big motor up to speed, and is shut off thereafter.

Also, be aware that you need mechanical safety covers for all rotating shafts, or there could be a bad accident if some clothing or hair got wound around one of those rotating components.

Joe, I'm not questioning you by any means at all and please don't take this question the wrong way. The tech support guy at work that told me about the 200 volts being overseas tells me that this 7.5 hp motor is an oddball for sure. But my question is how confident are you about this being wired to the low voltage? It's that one little sentence at the bottom of the motor label that's causing the confusion for me and him
(200 volt use low voltage connection) but it doesn't bother to mention the 230 voltage, would have been so simple for them to add that part to the sentence and I realize that it could have slipped by, or there's the simple fact that a qualified electrician (not me at all) would be doing the wiring on this thing and it wasn't needed. Would the 230 voltage be considered low voltage because it's in the same column as the 460 voltage? I tried to call Century but the customer service is a nightmare to say the least. The woman told me tech support is only available through email, you can only use the email if you have an account, and you can only have an account if you have a business name, on and on Does either one of the voltage connections look odd or are they pretty standard looking for someone who knows these things? Again, I definitely don't intend for this to come out the wrong way at all, I'm just saying that one little sentence is bothering me with the limited knowledge that I have on this part of it all. Thank you once again for all the help and advice sir!

 

[Rob F.]

I suppose, but the circuit as printed makes no sense - there would be no power to activate the contactor before it was already active, because the motor start coil is downstream from the contactor line switch contacts

I agree, at first I thought it to be a mistake on the drawing and didnt think much of it and have been thinking it is 2 remote pushbuttons for on and off away from the starter, you as well it seems. Thinking more about it the drawing can be correct and not missing any wires for the on button. That works if the on button IS the coil, you just push it in manually and then the T wires are energized and hold it in and to stop it the small contacts shown are the off switch that will break the circuit.
Probably a small starter/pushbutton on off combination up at the front of the machine (for those that have it).

 

[Joe Gwinn]

Joe, I'm not questioning you by any means at all and please don't take this question the wrong way. The tech support guy at work that told me about the 200 volts being overseas tells me that this 7.5 hp motor is an oddball for sure. But my question is how confident are you about this being wired to the low voltage? It's that one little sentence at the bottom of the motor label that's causing the confusion for me and him
(200 volt use low voltage connection) but it doesn't bother to mention the 230 voltage, would have been so simple for them to add that part to the sentence and I realize that it could have slipped by, or there's the simple fact that a qualified electrician (not me at all) would be doing the wiring on this thing and it wasn't needed. Would the 230 voltage be considered low voltage because it's in the same column as the 460 voltage? I tried to call Century but the customer service is a nightmare to say the least. The woman told me tech support is only available through email, you can only use the email if you have an account, and you can only have an account if you have a business name, on and on Does either one of the View attachment 396383View attachment 396384voltage connections look odd or are they pretty standard looking for someone who knows these things? Again, I definitely don't intend for this to come out the wrong way at all, I'm just saying that one little sentence is bothering me with the limited knowledge that I have on this part of it all. Thank you once again for all the help and advice sir!

It seems that Magnetek is best avoided. While it's easy to simply make up a business name and print business cards (which I have done for just this kind of thing), I must say that I find it useful to call a machine-tool vendor up and ask about getting spare parts for something they made at least twenty years ago. If they won't even talk to you, or you draw a complete blank, you've learned something useful. I bought a Clausing 5914 lathe in 2007 or so. I chose Clausing because they still support their old iron - expensive always beats unavailable.

Anyway, let's walk through the motor dataplate. There are three columns, labeled "230/460" (60 Hz), "200/400" (50 Hz), and "200" (60 Hz). They are for US+Canada, Europe (and much of the world), and Japan respectively. The motor maker defines low and high voltage right here, and tells one to treat 200 Vac as Low voltage (meaning not 400 or 460). Then, given the voltage and frequency combination, the dataplate specifies the guaranteed performance. The motor itself does not change. What changes is the expected performance given these various ways to power it.

So, for the present case, you are in the "230/460" (60 Hz) column; ignore the other columns. Your power source is single-phase 240 Vac (60 Hz). It is not 480 Vac or anything close. So, you should wire the 7.5 HP idler motor for "Low Voltage Line", and not for "High Voltage Line".

 

[BillyA]

It seems that Magnetek is best avoided. While it's easy to simply make up a business name and print business cards (which I have done for just this kind of thing), I must say that I find it useful to call a machine-tool vendor up and ask about getting spare parts for something they made at least twenty years ago. If they won't even talk to you, or you draw a complete blank, you've learned something useful. I bought a Clausing 5914 lathe in 2007 or so. I chose Clausing because they still support their old iron - expensive always beats unavailable.

Anyway, let's walk through the motor dataplate. There are three columns, labeled "230/460" (60 Hz), "200/400" (50 Hz), and "200" (60 Hz). They are for US+Canada, Europe (and much of the world), and Japan respectively. The motor maker defines low and high voltage right here, and tells one to treat 200 Vac as Low voltage (meaning not 400 or 460). Then, given the voltage and frequency combination, the dataplate specifies the guaranteed performance. The motor itself does not change. What changes is the expected performance given these various ways to power it.

So, for the present case, you are in the "230/460" (60 Hz) column; ignore the other columns. Your power source is single-phase 240 Vac (60 Hz). It is not 480 Vac or anything close. So, you should wire the 7.5 HP idler motor for "Low Voltage Line", and not for "High Voltage Line".

Joe, that was a lot of writing you did and I really really appreciate it sir. I understand it much better now and I understand that I was reading way too much into it. I definitely feel a lot more comfortable with it (and I don't want to jump into ANY project not being comfortable with it nor understanding as much as possible no matter what it is).......... now, can I go look at random motor plates and know everything about a particular motor..... no sir I cannot, but thanks to you and the people here, I can say that I'm well on my way to get to this particular goal, the Clausing drill press up and running making the occasional difficult project just a little bit easier with its capabilities.
Unfortunately, Magnetek was useless for any kind of help/support but BOTH Clausing and North America RPC are the complete opposite so far and very polite to boot!!!
I'll pull the cover on the motor and wire it for the low voltage configuration and post a picture (for grading) when I do it, probably be a day or so because I have a little yard work to do, some garden work and I need to locate the the spot in the fence where my goats got out two days back-to-back now.
Once again another thank you to all of you here, I appreciate your time, your advice and the help!!!!

 

[BillyA]

Well,I figured I'd use the same wire that came with the motor but I figured wrong lol. Notice the 460v written on the motor........well, 460v calls for 9.7 amps so this came with 14 AWG and the 230v calls for 19.4 amps so I need to get 12AWG or bigger and I think I'll probably go with at least 10, if not 8 AWG wire. Didn't see any signs of a ground wire inside so I guess they had it grounded externally but I think I'll go with the ground wire under the cover. That's the update for today, thanks again everyone!!!! Back to the yardwork.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

Those white connectors are crimped, so you'll need to cut them off. What I like for such limited space is Euro-style insulated barrier strips.

https://tools.molex.com/molex/produ...?parentKey=terminal_blocks_and_barrier_strips

There should be a green screw somewhere - this is where you connect the safety ground wire. If not, use a mounting screw. In both cases, you will need to crimp a ring terminal to the safety wire, rather than just wrapping stranded wire around the screw and tightening. The wire to the motor should be stranded, as it likely bounces around.

 

[BillyA]

Those white connectors are crimped, so you'll need to cut them off. What I like for such limited space is Euro-style insulated barrier strips.

https://tools.molex.com/molex/produ...?parentKey=terminal_blocks_and_barrier_strips

There should be a green screw somewhere - this is where you connect the safety ground wire. If not, use a mounting screw. In both cases, you will need to crimp a ring terminal to the safety wire, rather than just wrapping stranded wire around the screw and tightening. The wire to the motor should be stranded, as it likely bounces around.

Joe, there was no green screw under the cover at all but I circled in this picture a hole without a screw in it that I THINK a ground would go. Just above it you can see a D, I didn't get it all in the picture but above the hole is GND I'm guessing for ground, there's also another hole with GND on the opposite side. I'll definitely use a ring terminal on the ground which will be stranded. I have a little 8 AWG left from another project probably 10-15 ft. that's going to be ran from my panel/breaker to the disconnect then on to the RPC panel. Do you think 10 AWG will do for the motor or would you go with 8 AWG? I'll look into those European style strips, I don't think I've used those before. PS, I thought the wire that was on the motor was at least 10 or 8 AWG considering how thick it was but I guess the sheath is just really thick, I was surprised to see that 14 AWG on it. Once again, thank you for the advice and help!!!

 

[Rob F.]

Another note on those crimped wire connectors in the motor, if/when you have to cut them off be sure to cut through the crimped section of the connector, right next to the aluminum crimp inside. This will remove the absolute minimum amount of wire from the motor leads. I have seen some motors where the leads have been so short it is hard to connect them or even know which is which...

 

[BillyA]

Another note on those crimped wire connectors in the motor, if/when you have to cut them off be sure to cut through the crimped section of the connector, right next to the aluminum crimp inside. This will remove the absolute minimum amount of wire from the motor leads. I have seen some motors where the leads have been so short it is hard to connect them or even know which is which...

Rob, I'll have to cut them out regardless because as of right now it's wired for high voltage. Unfortunately there's not much between the tags and the crimped connectors so yeah I'll have to save all the wiring I can. Tight fit for sure and I'm going to leave it as is until I get the correct size wire. I'm still not sure why the sheath on this wire is so thick, trying to figure out if I can use regular THHN wire on it. Thanks again for the advice and help!!!!

 

[Rob F.]

Rob, I'll have to cut them out regardless because as of right now it's wired for high voltage. Unfortunately there's not much between the tags and the crimped connectors so yeah I'll have to save all the wiring I can. Tight fit for sure and I'm going to leave it as is until I get the correct size wire. I'm still not sure why the sheath on this wire is so thick, trying to figure out if I can use regular THHN wire on it. Thanks again for the advice and help!!!!

If the wires are already short you can remove the plastic cover off the crimps and then cut them in the direction of the wire to save all the wire if you are lucky, dont cut through the crimp into the wires. Another way I like better is after removing the plastic covers is squeeze the crimp a few different directions and it might open up so you can pull the wires out, try one at a time if it is hard going, "sometimes" one will loosen up first. The good thing about these methods is if they do not work out you can still cut off the wire at the edge of the crimp, or right through the middle of the crimp and use pliers to work off the little remnant.
Not the fastest ways but it will preserve the most amount of your wire.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

Joe, there was no green screw under the cover at all but I circled in this picture a hole without a screw in it that I THINK a ground would go. Just above it you can see a D, I didn't get it all in the picture but above the hole is GND I'm guessing for ground, there's also another hole with GND on the opposite side. I'll definitely use a ring terminal on the ground which will be stranded. I have a little 8 AWG left from another project probably 10-15 ft. that's going to be ran from my panel/breaker to the disconnect then on to the RPC panel. Do you think 10 AWG will do for the motor or would you go with 8 AWG? I'll look into those European style strips, I don't think I've used those before. PS, I thought the wire that was on the motor was at least 10 or 8 AWG considering how thick it was but I guess the sheath is just really thick, I was surprised to see that 14 AWG on it. Once again, thank you for the advice and help!!!
View attachment 396596

That looks and sounds correct. Get a few green grounding screws, and try to install one - they are self-tapping. Or, maybe easier, tap it to fit the screw. I think they are 8-32, but but check the green screw.

As for the wire from motor to RPC, THNN is what I have always used. And I think that #12 is plenty big enough, although there is no harm in #10. The really thick insulation may be an indication that some kind of high-flex-life machine tool cable was used, like those used to bring power to items that move many feet as the machine operates, used because they had that cable in stock.

Do remember to erase the marker saying 460 Volts.

 

[BillyA]

If the wires are already short you can remove the plastic cover off the crimps and then cut them in the direction of the wire to save all the wire if you are lucky, dont cut through the crimp into the wires. Another way I like better is after removing the plastic covers is squeeze the crimp a few different directions and it might open up so you can pull the wires out, try one at a time if it is hard going, "sometimes" one will loosen up first. The good thing about these methods is if they do not work out you can still cut off the wire at the edge of the crimp, or right through the middle of the crimp and use pliers to work off the little remnant.
Not the fastest ways but it will preserve the most amount of your wire.

Rob, I'll work with them and see how it goes. Should be okay either way because this SHOULD be the last time I have to mess with them. I guess I figured they would be marked all the way into the motor case itself. Thank you again!!!!

 

[BillyA]

Rob, I'll work with them and see how it goes. Should be okay either way because I this SHOULD be the last time I have to mess with them. I guess I figured they would be marked all the way into the motor case itself. Thank you again!!!!

That looks and sounds correct. Get a few green grounding screws, and try to install one - they are self-tapping. Or, maybe easier, tap it to fit the screw. I think they are 8-32, but but check the green screw.

As for the wire from motor to RPC, THNN is what I have always used. And I think that #12 is plenty big enough, although there is no harm in #10. The really thick insulation may be an indication that some kind of high-flex-life machine tool cable was used, like those used to bring power to items that move many feet as the machine operates, used because they had that cable in stock.

Do remember to erase the marker saying 460 Volts.

Joe, I bought a big package of those ground screws and I remember them being self tapping, I needed quite a few because I kept some of these old light fixtures in this old house when I ran new wire and the old fixtures didn't even have a ground originally. Now I have to remember where I put them lol
8-32 or 10-32 sounds like the right ballpark....... As far as the wire goes, I don't like solid wire on equipment so I'll probably just go with the 10AWG THNN just to be be sure. I tend to over do things sometimes when it comes to caution. I have never dealt with the type of wire that is still attached to the motor, just a little shocked to see the 14AWG on it. I'll be sure to remove or cover the 460v on the motor. I'm trying to decide exactly how I want to mount the motor also. I don't want it directly on my concrete floor because I have a lot of dust on the floor at times, especially after a project has had a lot of cutting and grinding. Might build some kind of a small shelf/cage? Thank you again!!!!!

 

[Joe Gwinn]

Joe, I bought a big package of those ground screws and I remember them being self tapping, I needed quite a few because I kept some of these old light fixtures in this old house when I ran new wire and the old fixtures didn't even have a ground originally. Now I have to remember where I put them lol
8-32 or 10-32 sounds like the right ballpark....... As far as the wire goes, I don't like solid wire on equipment so I'll probably just go with the 10AWG THNN just to be be sure. I tend to over do things sometimes when it comes to caution. I have never dealt with the type of wire that is still attached to the motor, just a little shocked to see the 14AWG on it. I'll be sure to remove or cover the 460v on the motor.

For a short link, #14 would work just fine. The issue is voltage drop, not heating per se. The over-current will not blow #14 like a fuse.

I'm trying to decide exactly how I want to mount the motor also. I don't want it directly on my concrete floor because I have a lot of dust on the floor at times, especially after a project has had a lot of cutting and grinding. Might build some kind of a small shelf/cage? Thank you again!!!!!

I agree with getting it up off the floor. I think a cage would be easier than a shelf, given the weight of the motor. Make a stout little base, and maybe a little ventilated cover?

If it's too noisy when running, one can mount it on some rubber vibration mounts, but don't forget to provide a flexible grounding strap from motor frame to base and cover if they are metal. Everything metal must be grounded.