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Affordable base CNC's have gone up in price... Alot! Haas, Hurco, Bridgeport.

andrewkeisler

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Location
Knoxville TN
I used to see brochures of these 3 companys fighting for the bang for the buck milling machine. Haas VF1, Hurco VM1, and bridgeport xv710.

http://www.hardingeus.com/usr/pdf/marketing/redtag.pdf

I contacted Hurco today regarding the VM1i.. which I'm guessing is taking over the standard VM10 seeing as how I didn't even receive a brochure/quote for it. Base price- 56,000! I understand prices will go up some over the years but 37,900 to 56,000 seems a bit to drastic to me. I know in 2006 they were 35,900....

I also saw a brochure from 2007 for a Hurco VM2 with complete 4th axis. 60,000... That's a good deal!

The haas has went up about 5,000 which isn't near as much but still a little surprising.

As for the bridgeport.. I guess the replacement is now the GX 710. I wouldn't be surprised if it has went up even more then the hurco going by a quote I received on a turning center.

I contacted sharp a few months ago in regards to a turning center.. the sales rep told me they don't even make them anymore. I thought this was a bit odd considering they are still on the website. I'm wondering if they even are producing the mills anymore.

Is there any smaller machining centers at affordable prices? Atleast compared to these 5 year old brochures? I'm leaning towards haas as it stands.
 
It's been a while since I've shopped anything new, but for what it's worth, here's what I noticed about Haas.
When I bought my SL10 in 2002, it went like this. Base machine was $39,990. Option package I bought included tailstock, touchsetter, floppy drive, quick code and visual quick code programming, and parts catcher, it came to $45,000 or something close to that.
My neighbor just bought an identical machine. The only difference is , it's now the ST model instead of the SL, and instead of a chip auger, they only offer a chip conveyor, which cost more. He paid $72,000. I just don't see these little lathes as $70 some thousand dollar machines.
 
Haas pays through the nose for employees and taxes. They also are a better machine in alot of ways than they used to be (mills). All machines have gotten a little more expensive because the cost of just the raw material and the labor has gone up. the rest is to keep the shareholders at bay.
 
Wow, I wish I could get all of those options for 5 grand. Now they want just a tailstock for that! I'm really trying to find a "good deal" I just can't seem to find it this day in time.

It's been a while since I've shopped anything new, but for what it's worth, here's what I noticed about Haas.
When I bought my SL10 in 2002, it went like this. Base machine was $39,990. Option package I bought included tailstock, touchsetter, floppy drive, quick code and visual quick code programming, and parts catcher, it came to $45,000 or something close to that.
My neighbor just bought an identical machine. The only difference is , it's now the ST model instead of the SL, and instead of a chip auger, they only offer a chip conveyor, which cost more. He paid $72,000. I just don't see these little lathes as $70 some thousand dollar machines.
 
Wow, I wish I could get all of those options for 5 grand. Now they want just a tailstock for that! I'm really trying to find a "good deal" I just can't seem to find it this day in time.

I know. They completely changed the way they deal with options. It used to be (when I bought mine) that if you buy the options "ala-carte" they looked expensive, but if you bought them they way they had them bundled up in a package, you got a massive discount.
Now, you just pick the options "ala-carte", and the more options you buy, the higher your percentage of discount is. I'm not sure what the increments are, but I think they've got it figured out so that you will have a hard time keeping your machine price lower. I guess that's kinda obvious. ;)
 
I know. They completely changed the way they deal with options. It used to be (when I bought mine) that if you buy the options "ala-carte" they looked expensive, but if you bought them they way they had them bundled up in a package, you got a massive discount.
Now, you just pick the options "ala-carte", and the more options you buy, the higher your percentage of discount is. I'm not sure what the increments are, but I think they've got it figured out so that you will have a hard time keeping your machine price lower. I guess that's kinda obvious. ;)


I recently bought a new haas. 10k 10% 15k 15% and 20k 20% than that tops out the discount.
 
The Haas VMC's are a way better machine today. They are much more rigid rapid rates as well as feed rates are much faster. Servos respond much quicker. Software is much quicker with more look ahead (if you get high speed machining). In my opinion the Haas VMC's are still a fair price for the rate of inflation now days. Plus if you deal with a Haas sales rep. chances are you can get a better deal than the quote you get online.
 
I just don't see these little lathes as $70 some thousand dollar machines.

That's about how I feel about walking the line of new light duty pickup trucks at the dealers lot too.
Not hard to spend that on a Ford F150, but hard to make as much money back with the truck.

I think it's an age thing.

Cheers
Trev
 
Funny part is the pricier everything gets, the more shop rates and part prices go down as all those people are trying to get work to keep their new machines busy and hopefully make the payments.

Good times.
 
I LOVE how they show a sidemount tool changer and auger when comparing these base price machines. haha

LOL. Yup. When it comes to Haas don't believe anything you see in the literature. Look my post up regarding the width of their castings if you really want a laugh.
 
LOL. Yup. When it comes to Haas don't believe anything you see in the literature. Look my post up regarding the width of their castings if you really want a laugh.

The Haas spindle HP ratings are also a joke. 30Hp spindle? GMAFB. This is the same bullshit as buying a Craftsman shop vac with a 6.0 HP sticker slapped on the side.
 
I will need a side mount tool changer for the work I will be doing... 7k from haas. I am going to contact Doosan regarding their machines. A few people on here said they picked up comparable machines to a haas for less cash. They come standard with the side mounts and seem to be very rigid machines!
 
Well, a Coke used to be .50 at a vending machine back then too- now it's $1.25+. So, I wouldn't say that all the "low end" machines have gotten more expensive... More like, everything has gotten more expensive.

I will say that the Haas entry level mills seem to be pretty dang cheap (price wise anyways) though... I can't see getting into a Doosan / Bridgeport / Hurco / etc for $50k before options. However, I wouldn't say that the SS models are such a great deal. They run pretty damn great in aluminum- but the spindle is wimpy and low on torque, the machines ARE light, and made fast with coarse pitch ball screws, etc... In the end, the SS models are CLOSE to the price of that "next step up"- so I question their value.

We started with a VF-2 and there is NO WAY I could have afforded 100k+ at that time. It wouldn't have even remotely been on the table. The VF-2 has been great- we have made our way through everything from aluminum to 4340 pre-hard and even some Titanium in that thing. That said, we recently put in a Bridgeport GX1000 w/ OSP control- and it absolutely slays it. We pored over the machines and specs for a long time- I don't see how a VF3 SS would be even in the same ballpark... Peak power as stated is close, but continuous power is not- less then half the torque, way less iron, smaller ballscrews, etc. It wasn't much more money for the GX.

Now, I have recently been shopping lathes... The bigger Haas lathes do not seem to make any sense price wise- The live tool / y axis stuff is priced almost right there with Okuma Genos stuff. I don't think there is any contest there. I haven't compared their simpler machines.
 
Our VM20 was $59,990 three years ago, and with that we got the desktop offline programming software... (Though their control lets you change your program while its running, or even write another program while it runs another... Which is awesome.) Rigid tap, dxf import, and tool change optimization. I'm not sure if it's an actual 15 horse motor or not, but it's damn near the size of a five gallon bucket, and I can push a 3 flute 3/4" mill at like 240 Ipm in 6061, 1.5" deep, .25 radially for ten minutes or so without slugging it... It groans a little though! We cut a significant amount of 6-4 ti... Never knew that was a machine specific thing?
 
For reference, I paid around 42k for my HURCO VM1 DELIVERED with the usual options(no ulti-net though), a Techniks tool holder package, a HURCO brand vise(which has actually turned out to be a decent unit), and a rotary converter setup to run it at the end of '05. I wish I had gone with something else, but it's paid for itself several times over so I guess I didn't do to badly.

-Sean
 








 
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