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Amper Machine Metrics, anyone using it?

nitrousmudbogger

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
Belgrade, MT
Im interested in using Amper machine metrics and wondering if anyone is using it or similar and their experience. Its like $300 equipment and $50/mo to provide machine metrics or example utilization, up time, down time, etc
My goal is to improve our efficiency in the shop. I think our efficiency is horrible and need quantifiable information to show the guys, hey this is how much you are running, now what can we do to improve. Implement improvements and track them
 
Im interested in using Amper machine metrics and wondering if anyone is using it or similar and their experience. Its like $300 equipment and $50/mo to provide machine metrics or example utilization, up time, down time, etc
My goal is to improve our efficiency in the shop. I think our efficiency is horrible and need quantifiable information to show the guys, hey this is how much you are running, now what can we do to improve. Implement improvements and track them

How big is your place? We used to have people track some of it by hand. Last good Piece to First Good piece time, actionable down time. The rest is efficiency type calculations (theoretically you could run 4 cycles you ran 3)

Better first step IMO than automating it. Automation removes the person on the ground having to acknowledge the bad number, then they start arguing measurements (how do you know that things even right??? blah blah).
 
The idea for me is it hooks up to the power via amp clamp, you take a week or so of running and get some baselines for their algorithms. From there I will have a TV set up showing the entire shop what is running and how often. So at a glance for me, operator, programmer who ever can see instantly where the machine is at for given amount of time. Are we running or not. I can then make changes and see actual improvements. We currently have paper trail, not working great
 
I don't think it works the way you think it does.

Each spindle must have its own amp clamp mounted in the machine cabinet. You then pay $50 per month per machine for the monitoring. They are also collecting the data, filtering and processing it, then are sending you the resultant data on your screen.

There was a lengthy thread on here before discussing the fallacies and possible benefits.

Monitoring spindle current is not the best indicator of what is going on with a machining process.

A simple part count over time would basically tell you the same thing.
 
It's not working because it's a papertrail, NOT data. You need data

First farms out programming to India....cheap code.
Not optimized code for your operations. Just cheap per line of code.

Now monitoring ? Next time them in the John ?

Why not just treat operators with respect, give them responsibility for the job, and move them up to programmers,
and they will work hard to make your shop work efficiently.

Try a incentive program instead of second guessing everyone.

You will be surprised what a motivated person will come up with to shorten set-up times, run times, tool life, etc.
 
First farms out programming to India....cheap code.
Not optimized code for your operations. Just cheap per line of code.

Now monitoring ? Next time them in the John ?

Why not just treat operators with respect, give them responsibility for the job, and move them up to programmers,
and they will work hard to make your shop work efficiently.

Try a incentive program instead of second guessing everyone.

You will be surprised what a motivated person will come up with to shorten set-up times, run times, tool life, etc.

You have no idea what we have tried and not tried? Currently paid on bonus, currently they move up to programmers. I have not sub out programming to india? I inquired about it on a thread that got deleted by someone probably you. Well the good news is for a company like mine we are in a crap area for employment. No we cannot pay $45/hr for button pushers. I would rather think outside the box, improve by any means necessary and run a profitable buisiness
 
You have no idea what we have tried and not tried? Currently paid on bonus, currently they move up to programmers. I have not sub out programming to india? I inquired about it on a thread that got deleted by someone probably you. Well the good news is for a company like mine we are in a crap area for employment. No we cannot pay $45/hr for button pushers. I would rather think outside the box, improve by any means necessary and run a profitable buisiness

Sometimes the old school method works best and is the cheapest. Clipboard on the machine, list the cycle time per part with loading time added. Any time the machine is down for more than a set amount of time an explanation of what happened and corrective action are listed. Won't take long to expose the problems. There has to be reasonable expectations every run, if parts repeat, every thing should get logged with the part files. A minimum of listed set-up time quantity, cycle time and total run time. No one should expect 17-4 to be run as efficiently as brass.
 
How many people running how many machines, for how many hours? That would be helpful in suggesting a method to improve your productivity. It's impossible to get useful data by recording spindle power draw. A dull tool will use more power than a sharp tool, a big tool will draw more than a small tool, and a face mill in steel may pull a servo alarm while a 1/8 inch drill in Delrin won't use enough torque to pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass.

Do you issue a bonus to the guy hogging with dull inserts and reprimand the guy making plastic parts whose meter hardly budges?
 
How many people running how many machines, for how many hours? That would be helpful in suggesting a method to improve your productivity. It's impossible to get useful data by recording spindle power draw. A dull tool will use more power than a sharp tool, a big tool will draw more than a small tool, and a face mill in steel may pull a servo alarm while a 1/8 inch drill in Delrin won't use enough torque to pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass.

Do you issue a bonus to the guy hogging with dull inserts and reprimand the guy making plastic parts whose meter hardly budges?

Yup, and how to give a bonus when the operator is stuck with a crappy program made to the monthly lowest bidder form India ?
 
Yup, and how to give a bonus when the operator is stuck with a crappy program made to the monthly lowest bidder form India ?

Coming from a non owner, probably union guy, that sits on the forums all day which explains his 12,000 posts. Do us all a favor and get a job, then comment on what your experience is instead of I dont like you so im gonna trash on every thread you have because I dont work im just a keyboard jockey tickling the keys all day.

Where something is programed or how is irrelevant to machine running or not once program is proven.
 
How many people running how many machines, for how many hours? That would be helpful in suggesting a method to improve your productivity. It's impossible to get useful data by recording spindle power draw. A dull tool will use more power than a sharp tool, a big tool will draw more than a small tool, and a face mill in steel may pull a servo alarm while a 1/8 inch drill in Delrin won't use enough torque to pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass.

Do you issue a bonus to the guy hogging with dull inserts and reprimand the guy making plastic parts whose meter hardly budges?

Bonus is hourly based on quality parts not quantity of parts. If operator has no mishaps as a result of his own mistakes he gets the hourly bonus. I can count on one hand how many times we have not given the bonus but keeps the guys cognizant of what they are doing, then raises are based on the bonus so it follows them
 
The reason I like the digital machine metrics if is im at a trade show I can see whats up, if Im at home after everyone leaves I can see the machines running or not, if clamps are not tight it will show up right away because the spindle isnt turning from a broken tool alarm. Not just an employee monitoring device. We had problems with tool probe for ever on a haas, 5-6 operators on same machine just cleared errors and went on without telling next guy or management. I could see production was terrible, added another coolant nozzle with some pipe down to the tool probe the constantly washed it off and bingo production up. Would be nice to fix these little things quicker. Everyone isnt excited to come tell you there is an issue, clear the alarm and keep going. Doesnt help
 
The reason I like the digital machine metrics if is im at a trade show I can see whats up, if Im at home after everyone leaves I can see the machines running or not, if clamps are not tight it will show up right away because the spindle isnt turning from a broken tool alarm. Not just an employee monitoring device. We had problems with tool probe for ever on a haas, 5-6 operators on same machine just cleared errors and went on without telling next guy or management. I could see production was terrible, added another coolant nozzle with some pipe down to the tool probe the constantly washed it off and bingo production up. Would be nice to fix these little things quicker. Everyone isnt excited to come tell you there is an issue, clear the alarm and keep going. Doesnt help

This is WHERE your problem really is. If there are small things that no one is addressing and yet they are getting paid bonuses, your bonus structure is screwed up.

A walk down the aisle can easily sort many of these things out just by the sounds and rhythm of the shop.

The Amper system you are considering is not going to detect these issues unless you are actually running production and all of the machines are running the same parts all of the time.

If you want to spend the money anyway go right ahead but then don't bother to ask questions because your mind is already made up.

I suspect by reading some of your posts that you are trying to manage without really managing. The best thing you could invest in to improve your shops efficiency is you and get your managerial skill set up to par. The other problems will take care of themselves.
 
Just yesterday, one of my engineers was running a one-off part with some trepidation (tiny O ring cutter) he'd turned the rapids all the way down then got called off to do something else. A 15 minute program. Three hours later, I wandered back to figure out what on earth he'd been doing that took three hours. Still sitting there waiting with rapids at zero.

Other than a bit of waste of electricity, this wasn't really a big deal (at the engineering shop the machines sit idle most of the day), but by spindle on time the machine sure was productive!

Might be more useful at your shop.
 
This is WHERE your problem really is. If there are small things that no one is addressing and yet they are getting paid bonuses, your bonus structure is screwed up.

A walk down the aisle can easily sort many of these things out just by the sounds and rhythm of the shop.

The Amper system you are considering is not going to detect these issues unless you are actually running production and all of the machines are running the same parts all of the time.

If you want to spend the money anyway go right ahead but then don't bother to ask questions because your mind is already made up.

I suspect by reading some of your posts that you are trying to manage without really managing. The best thing you could invest in to improve your shops efficiency is you and get your managerial skill set up to par. The other problems will take care of themselves.

We are running production, same parts day and night on most of the machines Im interested in watching
 
Just yesterday, one of my engineers was running a one-off part with some trepidation (tiny O ring cutter) he'd turned the rapids all the way down then got called off to do something else. A 15 minute program. Three hours later, I wandered back to figure out what on earth he'd been doing that took three hours. Still sitting there waiting with rapids at zero.

Other than a bit of waste of electricity, this wasn't really a big deal (at the engineering shop the machines sit idle most of the day), but by spindle on time the machine sure was productive!

Might be more useful at your shop.

I would think since its watching amp draw and nothing changes it would flag the issue. Its watching current draw and similarities and differences from that current draw. spindle runs 3 hours no current will change flagging the issue? Not sure, that is why I asked the group if anyone has used it not what am I doing wrong in life which is where 90% of the post has gone
 
I think your mind is made up and you just want conformation that your idea is a good one. It isn't as no one has agreed with you.
 
I think your mind is made up and you just want conformation that your idea is a good one. It isn't as no one has agreed with you.

Agreed, set it up yesterday. I will let everyone know how it actually works and if as advertised. At that point if anyone asks if someone has tried it I will be the only one apparently that has and be able to give my advise then
 
Agreed, set it up yesterday. I will let everyone know how it actually works and if as advertised. At that point if anyone asks if someone has tried it I will be the only one apparently that has and be able to give my advise then
What was the outcome? looking to set this up at our plant and if it goes well, it will go global?
 








 
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