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Anilam 5000M ADvice needed before I lose my mind

Crossfire

Plastic
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Hi Guys, I purchased a large VMC last year which was fitted with an Anilam 5000M controller, 4th axis, 24 bin tool changer, through spindle coolant etc. etc. Anyhow, I knew the mashing had a couple or problems when I went to inspect it, there was an issue with the Y-axis limit switch which I new I could fix, and the ball screw bearings were a little noisy, but, that was nothing for me to sort out. and then there were a couple of keys not working on the keypad which He told me about, and he had a keyboard plugged in which was fine for me for now. also the screen wasn't working, but he had an external monitor connected which mimicked nearly every machine shop in town. but these were all things I was comfortable with, I was never really in the market for a CNC Mill but it came for a great price so I took it.

So, I got it shipped over (from 2 blocks away) but being so busy it took me a couple of months to commission it, I was working on a major project, rebuilding the gearbox on my lathe, overhauling the overhead crane, as well as a few other little side projects, so the mill sorta came last. However, I needed to do some milling and make some new parts for the lathe, and a couple of small jobs for a customer, so i got stuck into the mill, got it leveled, repaired the limit switch, repaired the keypads (ended up just designing new ones and getting them printed, assembled the coolant sump, etc. etc. and began machining some parts. I had no coolant at this stage due to a small issue which popped it's head up (failed motor), but it was working for what I needed at the time.

Then came time to finish setting the machine up, and getting it working properly to make some money. Doing standard 2D milling (facing, contouring, 2D adaptive) was fine, but the moment I tried to do any helical interpolation (boring, Pocket milling with helical entry, counter boring) the machine wuold just cut out, and I was getting a "Z Lag over max" Error. Then I got "4th Axis Servo Driver Alarm" Error, Then I got "Error: Active CanBus node lost" Error, and "Servo or spindle driver alarm" all within about 2 minutes.

I read the manual back to front, inside out, and upside down. found the sections which related to all of this, and went about correcting the issues as per the manual, however, anytime I tried to bore or pocket mill, same thing.

The advice I need is: Should I persevere and try to fix it, or, throw the controller away and retrofit with something decent?

I can't afford to go with something I know, like Fanuc (I pretty much only have experience with Fanuc), but I want something that is robust and professional. I've pretty much narrowed the options down to : Centroid. I've contracted them (and they were wonderfully helpfully) but it's going to cost me about 12k AUD (or a bit more depending on the exchange rate on the day.

I'm Pretty stressed out about it, so If anyone with a cool head wants to chip in some advice, I'm all ears.

Cheers
 
I have a 3000m but have been lucky to not have those issues. So I’m no help there. When it comes to retrofit, take a look at Syntec controllers, they are setup just like fanuc and have a bunch of different options for how to connect and control.
I did one retro with syntec that has been solid, after messing with Linux cNC and mach3 for much too long.
Unfortunately they too are less than conversational, but it’s like all the other fanucs I have.
 
The only thing I can offer is try slowing down the feed rate and see if the Z keeps up. You can also play with the Z CAM. Sounds like you are using Fusion 360? Try plunging instead of helical ramping if possible


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Thanks ripperj, I already tried those, I tried altering the lag threshold, I tried balancing, I tried lower feedrates, I pretty much tried everything. If I pre-drill, it's no problem as I don't need to helical interpolate, but the machine is no use to me if I can interpolate 3 axis. And plunging into 316L 40mm deep is a recipe for disaster. I just ran a little test this morning and now the machine is throwing a fit doing

I've used a number of cam packages over the year, but at the moment I can't afford a good cam package, so I mostly just use the conversational wizards on the machines, or just write the gcode where I can, but if it's something out of my league I will use Fusion because it's the cheapest out there, even though I hate it. Having used Inventor and HSM professionally for many years, Fusion gives me the S#!ts... It really is substandard and not professional at all.
 
I have spent the morning in the shop with a Lecky, and he did some testing around and is convinced its software related. The controller kept telling me I have a 4th axis error, but the 4th axis drive has no error codes. every Time it came up with a fault, we checked that out and found no fault, it said there was a spindle error, but the spindle drive had no error codes stored. We went through the manual and tested a few things in the manual and they tested fine, we had the right voltages in the right places, so It's either a hardware fault in the computer/controller, or software related.

I will look at Syntec, Although, I have pretty made my mind up to go with Masso in the short term because they're in Australia and I can have it up and running in the next couple of weeks, rather than a couple of months. I know that Masso is not really a professional controller, and doesn't have enough IO to run my machine properly, I can work without some stuff for now to get me through until I can get a permanent solution, as long as all my Axis' work, my flood coolant, and my tool changer, that will get me through the next couple of months. I can live without TSC, the washdown pumps and the skimmer box for now, and a couple of other things.

I have been emailing with Centroid, and boy they are onto it, every time I fire a question back, they're straight back to me with an answer, they emailed a heap of schematics, examples, etc. I showed them to my Lecky mate he said straight away: go with them, they know there S#!t. But I'd be doing a huge injustice if I didn't check out Syntec. Thanks
 
I have been emailing with Centroid, and boy they are onto it, every time I fire a question back, they're straight back to me with an answer, they emailed a heap of schematics, examples, etc. I showed them to my Lecky mate he said straight away: go with them, they know there S#!t. But I'd be doing a huge injustice if I didn't check out Syntec. Thanks

You might want to check this thread on the 'Zone on some issues with Syntec:

https://www.cnc zone.com/forums/chinese-machines/350812-cnc.html

[Remove the "space" between cnc and zone to fix the url]
 
Thanks Milland,

I'm glad you pointed me to that.

One thing I will say is that Masso also has very poor documentation. You can really tell the quality of the company by their documentation. Even emailing them with questions and chasing information to make an educated decision, they're a little painful. But I can't afford anything else at this stage, if not for the outright cost, but also for the down time. I am slowly getting the answers I want out of Masso, and I am probably going to order one this week, But I don't see it as a permanent solution. My long term plan is to do a full and complete retrofit with Centroid Oak. After emailing Centroid, I have absolute faith in the company.

I am looking at another mill in town which is Identical to mine but the next size down, and it has a Fagor controller which I know they have had heaps of trouble with, and they have stopped using the mill due to the controller issues, and are looking to offload it cheap. If I can get my hands on it for the right price, I will do a full Centroid conversion on it while my existing machine runs on Masso, Then once the second mill is up and running (and depending on how the Masso unit is performing), I will likely convert it over as well, so I have two Identical Mills (different sizes) with Identical controllers.
 
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I would recommend calling Don Schoof 313-640-8080 or Jerry Bouvier 716-490-1462 and see if they can offer any suggestions. I am pretty sure they both will work on the 5000s and can at least tell you what is going on.

Jon
 
Nah, I'm not interested in paying for help on this machine, it will only eat into the cost of replacement, it's a cut-your-losses thing. I've already made up my mind, I'm ditching the Anilam this month. I can't afford to have something unreliable around that you never know if it's gonna do the job or not.
 
Evidently, it IS not the most reliable option. This is the only machine in town with an Anilam controller (for good reason I think), and there is nobody in town that knows anything about them, so the cost of finding someone and flying them in would be 50% of the cost of a retrofit, at least. and then I've still got 20 year old shit that's gonna play up again. Unless someone can say "It's definitely this" Or "It's definitely that" it's too much of a gamble.

I have the full builders manual, and I have gone through pretty much the whole thing, stopping short of rewiring the whole machine, and there is nothing physical I can see. It's gotta be a hardware fault in the computer (although my lecky mate who is a PLC guy reckons it's a software problem). I have a couple more things to try tomorrow, but if they don't show any signs of promise, I think I'm gonna order a retrofit.
 
Evidently, it IS not the most reliable option. This is the only machine in town with an Anilam controller (for good reason I think), and there is nobody in town that knows anything about them, so the cost of finding someone and flying them in would be 50% of the cost of a retrofit, at least. and then I've still got 20 year old shit that's gonna play up again. Unless someone can say "It's definitely this" Or "It's definitely that" it's too much of a gamble.

I have the full builders manual, and I have gone through pretty much the whole thing, stopping short of rewiring the whole machine, and there is nothing physical I can see. It's gotta be a hardware fault in the computer (although my lecky mate who is a PLC guy reckons it's a software problem). I have a couple more things to try tomorrow, but if they don't show any signs of promise, I think I'm gonna order a retrofit.

You're shooting in the dark, you and your mate both.

What exact machine is it?

Make and model of servos and amplifiers?

Z lag over max means that the Z axis is not keeping up during a move, either due to mechanical issues or servo problems. The rest of the errors are most likely a result of the Z amp shutting down.

Years ago I had an even older anilam than yours. It once or twice had problems with excess lag error and it was a case of spending 5 minutes to tune the servos and off it would go again. Perfectly possible that yours would be as easily fixed.
 
and there is nobody in town that knows anything about them, so the cost of finding someone and flying them in would be 50% of the cost of a retrofit, at least. and then I've still got 20 year old shit that's gonna play up again. Unless someone can say "It's definitely this" Or "It's definitely that" it's too much of a gamble.

Jerry has never charged me for phone or email help. I don't think there is anyone in the whole world that knows more about Anilam controls than him. I think his email is [email protected]
 
Unless someone can say "It's definitely this" Or "It's definitely that" it's too much of a gamble.

I mean, I told you the two people who can do that. And they might not even charge for their expertise, depending on the length of the call.

It does sound like your mind is made up.

Jon
 
Nah It's not 100% made up, I go through phases where it is made up, then it's not, then it is again.
I will email him and see what he comes back with.

Thanks
 
You're shooting in the dark, you and your mate both.

What exact machine is it?

Make and model of servos and amplifiers?

Z lag over max means that the Z axis is not keeping up during a move, either due to mechanical issues or servo problems. The rest of the errors are most likely a result of the Z amp shutting down.

Years ago I had an even older anilam than yours. It once or twice had problems with excess lag error and it was a case of spending 5 minutes to tune the servos and off it would go again. Perfectly possible that yours would be as easily fixed.

Hi, Thanks, that the inspiration I need.

However...

I have followed the manual for the Z-Lag over max, but the alarms come up randomly. not at the same time, and not every time. the controller is saying I have a servo error, but when I check the servo pack there are no error codes. I haven't "tuned" the servos yet, It's about the only thing I haven't tried. The only reason I haven't tuned them is because I don't have a cable. I've been asking around town if anyone has one I can borrow, otherwise, I can't find one in Australia so I'll have to order one in, from overseas (too slow for me). If anyone has one they want to express post me I'd be keen. I'm not keen on buying one from China.

The machine is a Quantum machine, out of Taiwan, they're sold globally under a few different names, I believe in the US they are sold as Fryer (at least the fryer machines I've seen in photos appear identical), it's 2000mm X-travel, about 900mm in Y, and around 600 in Z. Its a decent size machine, I didn't want a machine like this, but it was similar price to the smaller machines I had been looking at, so I thought the extra size can only be an advantage with the stuff I do.

I tried a few things with the Z-axis to see if I could force the alarm to come up, so I tried some boring cycles with various Z feedrates, and I couldn't get the alarm to raise, as soon as I put a job in and it started a boring cycle the alarm came back. I tried resetting all the parameters back to what the manual states they should be, same thing, tried changing the threshold to 0.5 (from 0.0047) the error still comes up, and there's no way the Z-axis is that far out, I can machine stuff down to 0.01 all day no drama's so there's no way the Z axis is not keeping up. at least, it's not as far out as the computer says this it is. I spent all day today working so I didn't get much of a play with it, but I have a couple of things to try tomorrow.
 
I tried a few things with the Z-axis to see if I could force the alarm to come up, so I tried some boring cycles with various Z feedrates, and I couldn't get the alarm to raise, as soon as I put a job in and it started a boring cycle the alarm came back. I tried resetting all the parameters back to what the manual states they should be, same thing, tried changing the threshold to 0.5 (from 0.0047) the error still comes up, and there's no way the Z-axis is that far out, I can machine stuff down to 0.01 all day no drama's so there's no way the Z axis is not keeping up. at least, it's not as far out as the computer says this it is. I spent all day today working so I didn't get much of a play with it, but I have a couple of things to try tomorrow.

You're misunderstanding what lag error is. It's not positioning error, it's dynamic error - the Z axis is falling behind where it should be during the move, it might very well still land in the correct position.

If it is actually a servo problem, it is usually that the gain is too low or the balance is way off, but it's equally likely to be a mechanical problem with the ways/guides, ballscrew, or counterbalance system for example. It could even be a faulty servo motor. Too many variables and not enough information.

You'll do well to contact the guys mentioned above to get help with the control, but you do need to consider the possibility that it's not the control that's at fault and investigate that properly too.
 
Hi Thanks for the reply.

Yes I am aware of that, as I said, I ran boring cycles (air cuts) no problems, tried a few different things, no problems, varying feedrates, no problems, but then in a cut (with lower feed rate than I tested with) the error appears. sometimes it appears immediately, other times it will make 3-4 or more turns before the error occurs.

I have checked the ways, Checked the lube, checked the ballscrew bearings, It could possibly be a bad drive/motor, however if this was the case, the servo drive would hold an error code? yeah? I mean the CNC is telling me I have an error, but the servo drive is not holding an error.

I had a guy around on the weekend who I used to work with, he does all the PLC stuff for an underground coal mine, He runs automation type stuff every day that's his job, he automates longwalls, he knows his shit, and for him to spend most of the weekend there with me testing stuff and tell me it's in the software, I have to believe him. I mean it very well could be in the motor/encoder, and I hope it is because that's quick and easy to replace, but if the drive registered a fault and sent an alarm to the CNC controller, it would log the code in the drive, I can just go into the menu and read the codes, and there's none.

As for gain, I've been through the manual and done all the MST stuff (what I can with Yaskawa drives without a cable), I tried all that before I came here. The only thing I haven't done is the stuff I need a cable for.

My drives are Yaskawa Sigma 2, XYZ are SGDM-20ADA, and A is SGDM-10ADA. There is a brake on the Z-axis ballscrew, which I first suspected to be the problem, but I tested and it is working. It is possible that it's releasing too slowly or out of sync wit the Z-axis, which is the next thing I'm going to test, but from having someone at the brake with a meter and me running code, the brake seems to be running fine. I did speak to someone and they said they had an issue with their brake and the just ditched it altogether and put in a braked motor and it solved their problem, so that might become plan B (with retrofit moving to plan C) if I can identify a problem with the brake. I checked the counterweight, it's swinging free, the pulleys are rolling well, the machine moves effortlessly, there doesn't appear to be any problems with the motion of the Z-AXis at all.

The other day I couldn't run anything without throwing a code, today I could do normal work (facing, contours, slotting) no problems. Yesterday I ran some code as mentioned previously, and got erratic error codes. one time it will say "Spindle drive error", then I'll reset, check the spindle drive, no codes, run the same code again and get "4 Axis servo drive alarm" or "active canbus node lost" (when the code doesn't call for 4th axis moves), and again, check it and no codes. It has to be inside that silver box that say Anilam. sometimes I turn it on and nothing displays on the screen, but if turn it off again and back in and it's all good. sometimes the screen flickers, other times it's all good. sometimes I can't reset the servos no matter what I do, but switch it off, restart and away you go. It's like using windows: sometimes no matter what you do, you just have to turn it off and back on again. I find that when it starts well the first time, it's usually ok, but when it doesn't start the first time, that's when you have issues.

I will say though, with all my anxiety put aside, If I can get this thing working, I will be happy, because so far I have found this Anilam controller to be really user friendly and easy to use. The conversational part has taken some time to figure out, but only because I refused to read the manual at first, but other that that the learning curve was very short, I think from the time I first turned it on, to running my first code was about an hour. It would be great if I could just find a problem and fix it and bam, back to normal.

I will contact the guy I got en email for, but I won't contact him until I have run completely out of options. There's nothing worse than wasting someones time calling someone and they go: have you tried this? then you try it and call them back and they go: well have you tried that? and same thing. I'd rather exhaust every option before I contact an expert, so they go: OK you've tried that and this and that, then it must be this or that.
 
Hi Thanks for the reply.

Yes I am aware of that, as I said, I ran boring cycles (air cuts) no problems, tried a few different things, no problems, varying feedrates, no problems, but then in a cut (with lower feed rate than I tested with) the error appears. sometimes it appears immediately, other times it will make 3-4 or more turns before the error occurs.

I have checked the ways, Checked the lube, checked the ballscrew bearings, It could possibly be a bad drive/motor, however if this was the case, the servo drive would hold an error code? yeah? I mean the CNC is telling me I have an error, but the servo drive is not holding an error.

I had a guy around on the weekend who I used to work with, he does all the PLC stuff for an underground coal mine, He runs automation type stuff every day that's his job, he automates longwalls, he knows his shit, and for him to spend most of the weekend there with me testing stuff and tell me it's in the software, I have to believe him. I mean it very well could be in the motor/encoder, and I hope it is because that's quick and easy to replace, but if the drive registered a fault and sent an alarm to the CNC controller, it would log the code in the drive, I can just go into the menu and read the codes, and there's none.

As for gain, I've been through the manual and done all the MST stuff (what I can with Yaskawa drives without a cable), I tried all that before I came here. The only thing I haven't done is the stuff I need a cable for.

My drives are Yaskawa Sigma 2, XYZ are SGDM-20ADA, and A is SGDM-10ADA. There is a brake on the Z-axis ballscrew, which I first suspected to be the problem, but I tested and it is working. It is possible that it's releasing too slowly or out of sync wit the Z-axis, which is the next thing I'm going to test, but from having someone at the brake with a meter and me running code, the brake seems to be running fine. I did speak to someone and they said they had an issue with their brake and the just ditched it altogether and put in a braked motor and it solved their problem, so that might become plan B (with retrofit moving to plan C) if I can identify a problem with the brake. I checked the counterweight, it's swinging free, the pulleys are rolling well, the machine moves effortlessly, there doesn't appear to be any problems with the motion of the Z-AXis at all.

The other day I couldn't run anything without throwing a code, today I could do normal work (facing, contours, slotting) no problems. Yesterday I ran some code as mentioned previously, and got erratic error codes. one time it will say "Spindle drive error", then I'll reset, check the spindle drive, no codes, run the same code again and get "4 Axis servo drive alarm" or "active canbus node lost" (when the code doesn't call for 4th axis moves), and again, check it and no codes. It has to be inside that silver box that say Anilam. sometimes I turn it on and nothing displays on the screen, but if turn it off again and back in and it's all good. sometimes the screen flickers, other times it's all good. sometimes I can't reset the servos no matter what I do, but switch it off, restart and away you go. It's like using windows: sometimes no matter what you do, you just have to turn it off and back on again. I find that when it starts well the first time, it's usually ok, but when it doesn't start the first time, that's when you have issues.

I will say though, with all my anxiety put aside, If I can get this thing working, I will be happy, because so far I have found this Anilam controller to be really user friendly and easy to use. The conversational part has taken some time to figure out, but only because I refused to read the manual at first, but other that that the learning curve was very short, I think from the time I first turned it on, to running my first code was about an hour. It would be great if I could just find a problem and fix it and bam, back to normal.

I will contact the guy I got en email for, but I won't contact him until I have run completely out of options. There's nothing worse than wasting someones time calling someone and they go: have you tried this? then you try it and call them back and they go: well have you tried that? and same thing. I'd rather exhaust every option before I contact an expert, so they go: OK you've tried that and this and that, then it must be this or that.

Right, you might have mentioned some of that at the start!

It's very likely then that the fault you originally asked about is just a symptom and not really relevant in and of itself. And no offence to your mate, but software problems don't usually manifest themselves like that. Those Yaskawa drives are solid, if there is a real fault, they will show it. The irregular and seemingly erroneous faults suggest communications failures between the control and the drive subsystems.

Many of the symptoms you describe are indicative of a flaky power supply. Also, I don't know what the physical architecture of a 5000M is like, but you might try reseating any cards/ribbon cables etc. in the control in case there is a dodgy connection between the cpu and the can controller.
 
I am probably way off here because I have never seen the 5000 series control. But, I have a machine with the 1200 series control that over the years has caused no end of grief and hair pulling. The 1200 uses a single board computer that exhibited many of the start up and other events you described. Eventually it just died and after a long period of time I was able to find another SBC at a reasonable price. Still had a few intermittent errors pop up. Then found a proprietary "communication" board at a reasonable price. Put it in and have been running nearly two years without any incidents.

Like Gregor suggests, the power supply may be "iffy" and/or some connections may be less than good.
 








 
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