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Any multitasking mill-turn machine with lower turret below $400k?

If going 5 axis mill and separate lathe could look at a Brother SPEEDIO M200Xd1 that can do turning and doesn't have a long tool change time. Might let you get away with a very cheap lathe and still have some budget for tooling and bar feeder?
 
B axis millturns are the pinnacle for complex parts. They are not economical on simple turned parts, or turned parts with basic milling.
That really depends on all you are doing with a part. Our Integrex machines have allowed us to take parts that aren't really that complex, that were 6 setups across 4 machines and turn it into 3 setups on 1. That means less operators needed, less handling and chance for something to go wrong, and less time spent per part.
 
That really depends on all you are doing with a part. Our Integrex machines have allowed us to take parts that aren't really that complex, that were 6 setups across 4 machines and turn it into 3 setups on 1. That means less operators needed, less handling and chance for something to go wrong, and less time spent per part.

I agree, but I think that's just semantics really - a part with 6 discrete setups can generally be considered a complex part, even if it's relatively simple machining.

FWIW, this was the exact reason we bought the NTX - because we had a LOT of parts that were massively setup heavy that could be extremely streamlined in a 5ax+subspindle mill turn.
 
We do not need huge and powerful machine so the DMG NTX series will perfectly fit, however, I am afraid it will twice exceed our budget, had send them the RFP.
If you're willing to buy used, there are deals to be had.

Perusing some used machine sites in the US, I see a 2019 NTX1000 with 76-ATC, lower turret, and barfeeder. < 3000 spindle hours, listed at just over 300K USD.

Not sure what it's like in Europe, but here it's a buyer's market right now, and B-axis mill turns don't hold value well to begin with.
 
If you're willing to buy used, there are deals to be had.

Perusing some used machine sites in the US, I see a 2019 NTX1000 with 76-ATC, lower turret, and barfeeder. < 3000 spindle hours, listed at just over 300K USD.

Not sure what it's like in Europe, but here it's a buyer's market right now, and B-axis mill turns don't hold value well to begin with.

$300k = £240k = €280k, you might get a late 20-teens NTX1000 here in the UK for that, but I'd say in general they seem to hold their value a little better here. Certainly the bigger machines do.

There is a big falloff after 10 years old - ~2012 CTX 2000 Gamma can be had for like €150k in Germany pretty much any time you need one.
 
How large are the parts you're wanting to put in this machine?
Are the cycle times short enough to justify the price of a lower turret over the B axis indexing time difference?
Let's say you need to index 5 times, how much time do those B heads take to complete those 5 tool changes? 3 minutes total? (guessing)
Sure a lower turret would be quicker but if your total part cycle time is 30 minutes those 2 minutes saved isn't really worth the added cost IMO.
 
How large are the parts you're wanting to put in this machine?
Are the cycle times short enough to justify the price of a lower turret over the B axis indexing time difference?
Let's say you need to index 5 times, how much time do those B heads take to complete those 5 tool changes? 3 minutes total? (guessing)
Sure a lower turret would be quicker but if your total part cycle time is 30 minutes those 2 minutes saved isn't really worth the added cost IMO.
NTX was in the 15-20 seconds range chip to chip depending on specifics and if the next tool was already staged.
 
@evidence_UA

There's kind of a price hierarchy for machine builders; Japanese and European machine builders are all above 400,000 USD for mill-turn machines, mostly above 500. Korean builders barely have any mill turns, except Doosan as pointed out by other posters here.

Until recently, Taiwan didn't have many mill turn options either, but in the last few years there have been several medium sized MTBs here that started producing mill turn machines. And they're generally just mechanical copies of the Japanese ones, but with less fancy sheet metal and at about 1/2 to 2/3rds the price. Most of the large Taiwanese made mill turn machines I've seen at the trade shows are in the $250 to $400 thousand price range.

There is one Taiwanese company called YDPM that makes both large mill-turns in the $330,000 price range and smaller ones for under 120,000 USD. I saw a smaller mill-turn they had at a trade show in March that was under 60,000 USD, but it was bt30.

Then on the high end of prices there's Willemin Macodel with fairly small (but really awesome) collet type mill turns but they start at like 700,000 ish.


Hopefully you're making something cool, like cruise missile jet turbines to explode the rooskies.
 
I guess IDK what other builders there is from Korea?


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I am Ox and I approve this here post!


FWIW, based on my experience with both (brands, not these models), I'd take the Hyundai-Wia over the Doosan.
 
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If you're willing to buy used, there are deals to be had.

Perusing some used machine sites in the US, I see a 2019 NTX1000 with 76-ATC, lower turret, and barfeeder. < 3000 spindle hours, listed at just over 300K USD.

Not sure what it's like in Europe, but here it's a buyer's market right now, and B-axis mill turns don't hold value well to begin with.
I'd be extremely scared of used mill-turn machines. One bump and they can be very difficult to get back into alignment unless you have a very skilled tech.

When I worked for Mori there were only 2 guys outside of japan that could properly level an NTX (even though they'd send anybody for a new install). They're awesome machines but with so many moving parts, things can easily go awry if you're not careful.
 

FWIW, based on my experience with both (brands, not these models), I'd take the Hyundai-Wia over the Doosan.
Funny, because from our experiences with Hyundai mills and lathes there will be no more added into the shop.
 
2 960B vertical mills with constant tool changer issues, usually getting stuck just after pulling a tool out of the spindle. 1 of them had to have the tool chain replaced shortly after install, the solenoid that actuates the tool pot down into position had to be changed on the same machine only about 2 years after install. Manually moving the magazine from the back of the machine to look at tools can cause it to lose where the tool pockets are and pulling up the wrong tools. The chip evacuation is pretty piss poor as well, it works OK with steel, however with aluminum you have to babysit it to make sure it's not getting stuck anywhere especially when you are using a facemill a good bit and making large curly chips. Plus the way the coolant tank is designed, when working with material that makes light/floaty fines, they will be getting ALLL throughout the tank because there is no screening or barriers from the chip conveyor running through it.

A HS6300 that has constant issues with the tool changer getting stuck/lost to the point I have the whole recovery process memorized. It's not fun because they have absolute shit documentation about what to do (I had to take the M code list and make figure out the order to input codes by trial and error) and the machine NEVER informs you what it is expecting/wanting when it won't do something.
The pallet change system uses a dog to know when the pallet is locked or not, but it's design lends itself to getting stuck if even the smallest amount of gunk or rust get on the shaft, sometimes going so far as to outright bending and needing replaced.

2 L800's that honestly haven't been that bad, however the chip conveyors they come with are beyond worthless. Any heavy material removal what so ever and they bog down and stop working. So often when doing heavy material removal the operator will have to occasionally stop the machine to let it remove the chips to catch up before it bogs down.

Doosan at least works with the Fanuc control to add features such as the the EZ Guide I to their machines. Hyundai does the absolute bare minimum they can get away with to make their machines function.
 
I guess IDK what other builders there is from Korea?


----------------

I am Ox and I approve this here post!


I believe Hwacheon is the biggest Korean machine tool builder. Though the website might be indicative of how well represented they are in the US.
 
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2 960B vertical mills with constant tool changer issues, usually getting stuck just after pulling a tool out of the spindle. 1 of them had to have the tool chain replaced shortly after install, the solenoid that actuates the tool pot down into position had to be changed on the same machine only about 2 years after install. Manually moving the magazine from the back of the machine to look at tools can cause it to lose where the tool pockets are and pulling up the wrong tools. The chip evacuation is pretty piss poor as well, it works OK with steel, however with aluminum you have to babysit it to make sure it's not getting stuck anywhere especially when you are using a facemill a good bit and making large curly chips. Plus the way the coolant tank is designed, when working with material that makes light/floaty fines, they will be getting ALLL throughout the tank because there is no screening or barriers from the chip conveyor running through it.

A HS6300 that has constant issues with the tool changer getting stuck/lost to the point I have the whole recovery process memorized. It's not fun because they have absolute shit documentation about what to do (I had to take the M code list and make figure out the order to input codes by trial and error) and the machine NEVER informs you what it is expecting/wanting when it won't do something.
The pallet change system uses a dog to know when the pallet is locked or not, but it's design lends itself to getting stuck if even the smallest amount of gunk or rust get on the shaft, sometimes going so far as to outright bending and needing replaced.

2 L800's that honestly haven't been that bad, however the chip conveyors they come with are beyond worthless. Any heavy material removal what so ever and they bog down and stop working. So often when doing heavy material removal the operator will have to occasionally stop the machine to let it remove the chips to catch up before it bogs down.

Doosan at least works with the Fanuc control to add features such as the the EZ Guide I to their machines. Hyundai does the absolute bare minimum they can get away with to make their machines function.

Fair enough, I only have one Hyundai and I like it a lot.

In stark contrast to the Doosan I owned, which had a piss poor ladder - using the Doosan tool measuring cycles from the operator panel didn't work properly, while using the Renishaw cycles in MDI did, the ladder section for spindle sync was only partially implemented so it only ran clockwise when synced - stuff like that.
 








 
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