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Automobile Manufacturing, all the new EV's, how is the tooling made?

Word on the street is that somebody read this thread and decided to do a structural test of a Tesla

Tesla Gets Major Air on Echo Park Street (Los Angeles) - Alex Choi Video - YouTube

If that's not bat s$it crazy i don't know what is.

How many stupid stunts are pulled due to wanting to post something on Youtube? I wonder how many injuries, even deaths and property damage are caused by people wanting to show off? At least the one time I went airborne no one was watching and it was for a good reason, I was trying to beat a train, it was almost a daily ritual as the train was there the same time I got off work. Playing Dukes of Hazard caused me to crack a US mag, that tire went down quick, and it was a front one, just lost a tire.
 
Thats all out-dated thinking based on old resistance coil electric stoves. Induction stoves are waaaay more powerful than any residential gas stove. They also have instantaneous and finer control than a gas stove.

They're also easier to clean, better for your health, and safer. The gas companies are spending huge amounts to market gas stoves as a way to convince consumers they need a gas line to their house. (which then they can sell them a gas furnace and water heater that actually use alot of gas)

I see a fair amount of outdated thinking on this forum and I think it's due to the demographics of it's members. It's the "If it was good enough for grandpa, it's good enough for me" mentality.
 
I'm talking specifically about induction stoves. Not more powerful per se, but definitely better able to get more heat into a pan, hence why I mentioned they can get hotter. I'd rate them about the same in terms of responsiveness. Gas goes on/off pretty much instantly.

If the pan or whatever isn't sitting flat in contact with an inductive stove...it's not going to work anymore and it's going to start losing heat. E.g: if you're keeping a pan tilted for a few minutes in order to baste whatever you're cooking with oil/butter. Inductive stove won't work, gas will keep the heat on. If you're doing a lot of flipping and holding the pan slightly above the stove...inductive stops working. There's a reason most professional chefs still prefer gas. It gives you more options. But like I said, it definitely doesn't matter for everyone and you can work around many of the limitations if you so choose.



Very true. Safety is a bit of a moot point unless you're Mr. Bean/have kids/store oily rags by the stove. Health, eh. Technically true but if you have good ventilation it's not worth worrying about.



Depends where you live and what your gas/electric bills are like. Gas is usually cheaper for furnaces/water heaters. In our case our gas fireplace alone, if we turn it on for heat, uses about $10~$15/day in gas. No furnace but tankless heaters are both gas. OTOH I think we'd pay even more for a 30kW+ electric version given that our electric ranges from $0.35~$0.45/kWh.

The lesson is get solar panels if you're in CA...

$300 to $450 a month for gas to run a fireplace. Are you sure you're not running a blast furnace? When we're in Michigan for the winter I heat our 1,250 foot house and a 800 foot machine shop and I've never had the gas bill go over $150 in any given month.

And who has "ventilation" nowadays. Most homes are buttoned up as tight as we can get them. In the northern climates to keep the heat in and in the southern climates to keep the heat out.
 
I see a fair amount of outdated thinking on this forum and I think it's due to the demographics of it's members. It's the "If it was good enough for grandpa, it's good enough for me" mentality.

Ironically I'm probably one of the younger people here and this is the primary issue I have with the forum. All I'm sayin' is that there's a reason people like gas and it has some tangible benefits vs induction. And vice versa. Both are useful tools.

$300 to $450 a month for gas to run a fireplace. Are you sure you're not running a blast furnace? When we're in Michigan for the winter I heat our 1,250 foot house and a 800 foot machine shop and I've never had the gas bill go over $150 in any given month.

Wish I was...gas here is just super expensive and this isn't the most efficient home ever built. But I'm happier to pay for the gas than for the electric bill in the summer.
 
Depends where you live and what your gas/electric bills are like. Gas is usually cheaper for furnaces/water heaters. In our case our gas fireplace alone, if we turn it on for heat, uses about $10~$15/day in gas. No furnace but tankless heaters are both gas. OTOH I think we'd pay even more for a 30kW+ electric version given that our electric ranges from $0.35~$0.45/kWh.

The lesson is get solar panels if you're in CA...

Come on now I just saw an official looking link that showed average price in California to be $.18 per KWH. That must be for what they call tier 1, which probably what a one bedroom apartment with one person uses. Those rates on that link are a joke. $10-$15/day in gas, damn that sounds expensive. I have all electric. Is their anything in California that a person consumes that is the highest price in the nation or close to it? I read the average price for diesel there is $6.25.

As for these modern electric stoves, why are they paying these professional TV chefs to use them? That would be a great marketing tool.
 
Some more substance:

To OP:

1. I've seen videos of CNC machines making what appear to be very large stamping tools (or very large injection molding tools) - I would expect that tooling for the gigapress machines are made in a similar way. There are some *VERY* large mold/die making machines in the world.
(Some of the best videos I've seen are now disappearing stories on instagram which thwarts my posting a link.)

It isn't really a "mold machine" but Janicki in Sedro-Wooly at least had (likely still has) a milling machine that can make the mold plug for 70ft fibergalss boat in one setup. I saw it. I stood inside it. The walls of "the room" are the ways of the machine. (I would not *think* it would be suitable for stamping tools, but maybe?)

[Maybe some of the die-cast mold or stamping die folks know differently - but I've never seen any discussion of such tooling being cast]

Note that even if it was cast, somebody would still have to make the pattern...


2. One of the videos that Ries posted claims that Indra named the machine "giga" (not Tesla), and they make 12 a year. In other words, this was a technology you could buy (with lots of money and collateral resource) "off the shelf" .. (You do realize you can call up Aida and order a very large servo press, right? Mere money....)


3. Things like custom alloys aren't new, or unique to Tesla. You think Ford makes frame rails for pickups with generic stuff they buy from online metals? There are magazines like "modern stamping" (I think that's the title) and most of the content is about "steels" that bear little relationship to anything you find in the local yard. Names like "high strength low alloy" should give you a hint. Sometimes Aluminum or Titanium are better, and sometimes they are not. There are still applications in airplanes, boats, racecars (think infinite money), where *wood* is the best material.


4. I raced carbon fiber tubbed race cars for years (uh, half a decade actually... wow) - anyway - it can make a very light, VERY stiff car. That can be good. But damage repair can be quite a chore. Delamination is an issue you don't usually see in metal structures. When crashed, a carbon fiber tub may leave amazingly sharp slivers that are directly attracted to tires, fingers, and eyes. Any crash tends to leave nasty debris around, carbon fiber might make it worse. Given how often people hits things with cars now, having them leave more debris is maybe not a great plan.


5. The arguments about EV weight on roads aren't about peak weight. US law already in effect sets a limit of 80K lbs on 5 axles (truck included.) Bigger weights generally need a permit. This has to do wtih federal funding of *bridges*, and I've seen some docs call it the "bridge law".

EVs aren't really affected by that. But they will *on average* be heavier than a comparable ICE vehilce, due to battery weight alone. Which means average daily burden on the road surfaces will be higher. I'm not sure this matters given how heavy SUVs are and the regulatory pressures and market pressures for better energy use - so in 5 years the typical EV (likely a van or pickup) may not be any heavier than an ICE SUV would have been.


6. Most of the chassis technology in EVs is stuff that could be done in ICE vehicles, if it made sense. It's notable that lots of people love Teslas, but the best selling vehicle in the US is still ... the F150. For many people, a Tesla makes no more sense than a Ferrari...

The electric motors change some fundmanetal parts of design (in generally good ways), the battery size and weight change the design (in generally bad ways..) Fortunately, there is enourmous good old fashion capitalist pressure pushing for better batteries.

I think it is "too early" to be going electric, for most people. Little by little and then all at once.... So in say 3 or 5 years you might be able to buy a perfectly satisfactory van, pickup, is EV, for a price no worse than comparable things.


Remember, it was not soooo long ago that vans and pickups were almost always gas powered.


7. Environmental reality - the extremists who pray for the total number of cars to be reduced are in for total defeat outside out of a few areas. Electric cars will make people feel "more virtuous" (there is some evidence that electric vehicles are replacing bike commuting (!!!) in some places) - and more automation, let alone fully self driving, will make commutes more bearable. Money wins, money likes everybody having a Lot Of Stuff. Post covid changes will likely magnify this over time. (If you moved from downtown Seattle to Carnation, light rail is totally irrelevent, you will need a car, and maybe two. But the food is better and the dogs are friendly.)

It's worth noting a train with nobody in it is a *worse* environmental load than a car. Likewise a bus - but busses are very flexible. It's been known for decades that a bicycle has overwhelming energy efficiency, and while people including me love them, they've never mattered much for congestion. It's sad, because they're such lovely vehicles...

All that said, EVs are not so big a step up from ICE, except in local air quality. (You still have to make the EV - the mfg of the vehicle makes a big fraction of emissions. They still have tires. There has to be power plant somewhere. And someday we have to dispose of the batteries.) Of course, just as a large market means that car body recycling is a well developed thing, similar forces will apply to EV batteries. Eventually.

And yes, there really is a "war on cars" (there are web sites and podcasts with names like that) - but they are mainly talking about a few % of the area of the US, which hold a lot of people, but still a smallish fraction of total pop. And the solutions they favor (rail, mostly) cover a tiny area, which does not include the vast territories needed to feed and otherwise supply people. Apparently a number of rail transport systems in the US have *VERY* low ridership, and had such BEFORE covid.

There will be lots of vehicles, just like there will be lots of toilets and lots of beds.


Have A Nice Day
 
He probably hasn't been a bully to you so you don't think he's a bully but I have little doubt that you've read lots of his posts accusing me of lying and just plain being a bully. And I give back what I get. Maybe it's just because he hasn't sent you an invite for a fist fight but that's the first time I've every had someone send me a PM to fight. If that isn't bullying, what is?

My god... do you need a tissue Big? Is the B for 'Baby' sheesh, you cry more than a little girl with a skinned knee, man up for Pete's sake
 
My god... do you need a tissue Big? Is the B for 'Baby' sheesh, you cry more than a little girl with sa skinned knee, man up for Pete's sake

They need to have one of those rolling on the ground laughing emojis for posts like this. I tried posting one from another site by copying the script, but it didn't work. 3 days on ignore but you guys keep quoting him. So I see he is still talking crap about me while I have let him be.
 
Come on now I just saw an official looking link that showed average price in California to be $.18 per KWH. That must be for what they call tier 1, which probably what a one bedroom apartment with one person uses. Those rates on that link are a joke. $10-$15/day in gas, damn that sounds expensive. I have all electric. Is their anything in California that a person consumes that is the highest price in the nation or close to it? I read the average price for diesel there is $6.25.

I wish. That's the average maybe, but in the south bay area it's way higher. I just checked my PG&E bill. Current rates are $0.37 for peak, $0.33 for off-peak. During the summer (last July) it was $0.58 for peak and $0.38 for off-peak. Gas is $2.10/therm tier 1 and $2.55/therm tier 2. 98 cu.ft. = 1 therm.

This house definitely isn't winning any efficiency awards, but utilities are still expensive AF around here.
 
I wish. That's the average maybe, but in the south bay area it's way higher. I just checked my PG&E bill. Current rates are $0.37 for peak, $0.33 for off-peak. During the summer (last July) it was $0.58 for peak and $0.38 for off-peak. Gas is $2.10/therm tier 1 and $2.55/therm tier 2. 98 cu.ft. = 1 therm.

This house definitely isn't winning any efficiency awards, but utilities are still expensive AF around here.

Amazing. That really surprises me that is a heavy cost. I checked it out and noticed this article which explains why. It seems that Edison is very high like PG&E also.

Here’s why your electricity prices are high and soaring - CalMatters
 
I wish. That's the average maybe, but in the south bay area it's way higher. I just checked my PG&E bill. Current rates are $0.37 for peak, $0.33 for off-peak. During the summer (last July) it was $0.58 for peak and $0.38 for off-peak. Gas is $2.10/therm tier 1 and $2.55/therm tier 2. 98 cu.ft. = 1 therm.

This house definitely isn't winning any efficiency awards, but utilities are still expensive AF around here.

I think that average is highly inaccurate. You go to Southern California Edison and the rates look similar to yours and I would venture SCE has a lot of customers.
 
If you look back historically, the cost of electricity has been going down when factoring in inflation. Remember, very little electricity is made with oil. Basically less than one percent in the US.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Notice that wind is now greater than hydro. Impressive.

Any news on the Flying Tesla?

Isn't wind still one of the most expensive if not the most expensive ways of generating power due to maintenance costs? Isn't hydro the cheapest?
 
If you look back historically, the cost of electricity has been going down when factoring in inflation. Remember, very little electricity is made with oil. Basically less than one percent in the US.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Notice that wind is now greater than hydro. Impressive.

Any news on the Flying Tesla?

Oil right yet it is a backup for when there are shortages. If it is super high then spot purchase are sky high during a emergency. Now fossil fuels include coal, and gas also. Coal still generates a tremendous amount of electricity.
 








 
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