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Best used precision surface grinders that are rebuildable/repairable?

rajhlinux

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Location
USA
Hello,

So I'm considering some research on to which precision surface grinder I can buy for the low based on it being used.
I have read people buying them for $200-$800 of super used and old surface grinders.

I would like to take this to my advantage and rebuild/repair it back to spec.
However, I watched a video recently on YouTube how a Boyar Schultz Surface Grinder was literally not repairable and finding the part did not exist so had to make a new lead screw and repair the rack and pinon:

I asked the YouTuber about the surface grinder performance and he told me that the rebuild wasn't precise enough to do any precision work, so he resold it and bought a Harig Surface Grinder which was in mint condition.

So the question remains, which used precision surface grinders are worth to get so that no custom repairing is needed for important things like lead screw, spindle and rack and pinon? Basically a surface grinder where all the important parts are easy to find and replace.

It seems to me that used precision surface grinders are not ideal and simply buy a mint/new surface grinder.

Thanks for any advice.
 
Your U-tube guy knows not much about small surface grinders or using them.
Two machine makes in this are Harig and Boyer. Somewhat the same. Some differences.
A hand driven Brown and Shape 6x18 will put them both to shame but but this a whole bigger machine.
Screws and lash do not matter, wear on the rack does not matter. This is so silly shit.
What counts are the ways and condition.
If your pocketbook can do it certainty new is best but have bought many of mine used.
Bob
 
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So the question remains, which used precision surface grinders are worth to get so that no custom repairing is needed for important things like lead screw, spindle and rack and pinon? Basically a surface grinder where all the important parts are easy to find and replace.
Anything used will require repair, and they did not make a whole lot of spare parts for any machines. I'd suggest something brand new, with a service warranty.
 
I picked up a nice full automatic 5500 lb Chevalier 1224 recently. I cleaned it some to make it pretty again. Came with 5 arbors, wheel balancing machine and a few wheels. I'm no grinder expert, but it strikes me as a pretty nice machine.

The ways are just blocks and plates of hard steel with rollers on all sides. This machine ran production non-stop for Precision Cast for a decade and it's still tight. So while the ways are replaceable and all parts are available from Chevalier, I doubt you'd need much.
 
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Hi rajhlinux and others:
You (the OP) gave us no indication of the sizes of parts you wish to grind, nor do we have any idea of how accurately you intend to grind.
We also don't know if you plan to use the grinder a little or a lot and whether you intend to grind plates or grind anything that could possible be ground on a surface grinder.

All these things matter...there is a big difference between a lightly built but supremely handy Boyar Schultz toolroom grinder and a heavily built Mattison production grinder, not the least of which is price and bulk.

From the tone of your post I assume you are interested in a toolroom machine like the Boyar Schultz or the Harig.
Here's my take:
1) Almost anything is better than nothing, but if it's in good condition it will be easier to use and you can do much better work on it.
2) As soon as you want to grind plates with any regularity, a hydraulic wet grinder will be a big help.

With regard to the "Good Condition" part, the table traverse must be very flat...within microns.
Many ways to assess that...a common one is to prop a granite parallel up on blocks at the "Airy Points" (look up the definition) and run a tenths indicator over the surface of the parallel to see how flat the grinder runs.

Check the spindle with a tenths clock too, and listen with a stethoscope for bearing failure.

Test grind a 4140 HTSR plate with a freshly dressed coarse wheel like a 46J and see if the wheel bounces or whether you can get a good finish.

Those tests alone will eliminate a junker or a rebuild candidate.

I have always favoured a small hydraulic wet grinder.
In my day I have run Kents, Boyars, Harigs, Doalls, Churchills Nortons and others.
I currently own a Jones and Shipman 540...it's a hydraulic wet grinder that's a handy size for toolroom grinding but isn't stout enough for efficient production grinding.

Last, if you intend to rebuild something, get a worthwhile machine, not some POS that was crap even when it was new.

If you buy new, Mitsui is very good and Okamoto is very good.
There are others too.
Sadly many great makes are no longer offered...the companies have gone belly up.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 
I have three surface grinders. Two Gardners (6 x 18, 10 x 15, both roller ways) One larger grand rapids (10 x 30, regular ways). My favorite is the 10 x 15 Gardner with a 12 inch wheel, the other one has a 7 inch wheel. All three are great grinders but all have been rebuilt. I think if you buy a used grinder you will have some wear and should plan on rebuilding.
 
Scraped oil way and ball machines often have an over-tightened magnetic chuck from new or some time in life and so are damaged right from the start for both ball and scraped way machines may be common.. Overtightening the chuck makes the table bow upward at the long travel ends. A Boyar I recently tore down from the looks of scraping wear looks like the ends may be .0005 to .001 bowed up at each end. It came from a good shop so likely had a few tenths ability. Just loosening the chuck and re-tightening to proper (about 20 lbs) will likely improve the grinding ability back to near zero.
I would not trust even a new grinder sales shop to tighten/mount a chuck on a new surface grinder.
My old clunker hobbled B&S 618 #2 is nearly dead flat. My 13 grinder is likely near dead flat but I have never checked it.

I mentioned that the Boyer gib cross is a poor design but for most SG work one would never have a problem with that. The Boyer is a decent machine. This Boyer is a better machine than the last Mitsui I took apart. Mitsui's big problem is getting grits in the works so needing to pull the table every couple years..that is an easy job..
 
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I picked up a nice full automatic 5500 lb Chevalier 1224 recently. I cleaned it some to make it pretty again. Came with 5 arbors, wheel balancing machine and a few wheels. I'm no grinder expert, but it strikes me as a pretty nice machine.

The ways are just blocks and plates of hard steel with rollers on all sides. This machine ran production non-stop for Precision Cast for a decade and it's still tight. So while the ways are replaceable and all parts are available from Chevalier, I doubt you'd need much.
Aren't those run with ball screws instead of hydraulically reciprocated?
 
Hello,

So I'm considering some research on to which precision surface grinder I can buy for the low based on it being used.
I have read people buying them for $200-$800 of super used and old surface grinders.

I would like to take this to my advantage and rebuild/repair it back to spec.
However, I watched a video recently on YouTube how a Boyar Schultz Surface Grinder was literally not repairable and finding the part did not exist so had to make a new lead screw and repair the rack and pinon:

I asked the YouTuber about the surface grinder performance and he told me that the rebuild wasn't precise enough to do any precision work, so he resold it and bought a Harig Surface Grinder which was in mint condition.

So the question remains, which used precision surface grinders are worth to get so that no custom repairing is needed for important things like lead screw, spindle and rack and pinon? Basically a surface grinder where all the important parts are easy to find and replace.

It seems to me that used precision surface grinders are not ideal and simply buy a mint/new surface grinder.

Thanks for any advice.
Used machines are just like used cars, really good models can be trashed and cheap ones could have been cared for like a newborn... Good luck. Fortunately the older ones have parts that are usually pretty simple to make in house
 
There are cheap grinders out there, but generally you get what you pay for. Several years ago, I was looking for a small (6"x 12") grinder for my shop. I found everything imaginable on the market. Sizes ranged from 4"x 6" to 24" x 48" in just about any brand ever made.
I looked at nearly 50 machines over the course of a year and came away disappointed in every case. Many were either too big or too small while those in the size range were either rode hard and put away wet or had an astronomical asking price. I had all but given up when a shop owner friend alerted me to a 6x12 machine available about 100 miles north of us.
I took a weekend road trip and checked it out. It turned out to be a Sanford MG that looked to be in like new shape. I did a quick check over and asked the price. When all was said and done, I purchased the machine for $600.00. In the scheme of things, it's a lower end totally manual dry machine. The owner was doing contract work for Mercury Marine but wanted to retire. He thought the best way to minimize the amount of work he was taking on was to eliminate some of his machinery. This particular machine was used to grind shims for lower units of inboard outboard motors. He didn't care for that part of the business, so he was more than happy to see the machine go down the road.

I've had it in the shop well over 10 years and use it on a semi regular basis. It might set for a month, then gets used several hours a day for several days in a row. It's easily accurate to within .0001", but it's far from a production machine. For my purposes it more than fits the bill. Being retired I can spend as much time as needed to get the tolerances I'm striving for. However, being a manual machine it's mind numbing to operate and wouldn't want to use it in a commercial or production situation.
 

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