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Blaser Synergy 735 coolant and impact on waycover plastic wipers

serview

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Location
NJ
I am using Blaser Synergy 735, overall it has worked well for our needs.

It was used in a new machine (Doosan DNM5700) for almost 4 years, and recently we started seeing breakdown of the wipers on the waycovers.
This started in one location at the top corners of the Front Y waycover on the wipers, and is now observed on X left/right and rear Y waycover wipers.
We are going to replace the wipers, but we are wondering if anyone else has seen this problem with Blaser Synergy 735?

Does anyone have any issues running Blaser Synergy 735, specifically breakdown of wipers?

The wipers are Polyurethane, Shore A Hardness 85 per Hennig who made the waycovers and wipers

Blaser sales has told us that the Synergy 735 was tested and certified to be compatible with Polyurethane.
We have a Doosan machine, and when we visited the NJ factory office, they showed us they run Synergy 735 and this is why we used it. I was aware it is a full synthetic and could be harsh on plastics, so we watched concentration carefully.

We use filtered low TDS water, and keep the concentration of coolant rich (but within spec) for the most part as we like the rust inhibiting effect.
We sometimes see concentration go up when we get evaporation, and typically top off with pure filtered water
and maintain within the range of 6% to 10%. Blaser told us to use at least a 1% mix or higher on fillups and also to consider using an ultrasonic mixer, which seemed surprising but we will do it if this is necessary.
Blaser came right away when we reported this problem to them, and they checked our concentration of coolant that is 4.9% (just a bit low on concentration). This differed slightly from our measurement, so we are going to pay more attention to calibration of the refractometer.
It does get higher concentration when the coolant evaporates on our 80 gallon tank, so we try to stay within the range of 6% to 10% at all times and check it as we refill, but generally it goes to higher concentration when we get low level, but overall we are staying in the proper range of concentration.

They also checked our PH to be 7.9 which is within the acceptable range.

Blaser has taken lab samples of the coolant from the reservoir, and also our filtered makeup water, and we are expecting results from the lab soon. They did check our coolant about 6 months ago as it had turned from clear to yellow over time. At the time they said it was OK to keep running, but we figured 3 year run time was enough and we changed out to a new batch of coolant. The lab will also test for bacteria and other contamination that might be present and we will get a report soon.

We will replace and fix the wipers, but I am concerned about other seals and gaskets (so far no observed leaks anywhere) and still looking into what else may be affected. (If anyone has input on what other seals and gaskets to be aware of I am interested to know from experienced people, our service manager from the dealer was asked, but we did not really get feedback on other areas to monitor, so we will probably ask Doosan directly next)
We do see some paint lifting on some cast parts on the saddle as well, I can live with this, but wish it wasnt lifting
Any ones experience on this would be appreciated.

I am considering switching away from the Synergy 735 for this issue, but it would be great to know if anyone else has seen issues with degrading wipers or other plastic/gaskets. I understand wipers will need to be changed eventually, but how long should they last?

The Doosan has a grease cartridge lubrication(no way oil) and overall everything runs super clean
We do have an oil skimmer, and it always runs.
We dont cut anything except AL, Stainless 304 and some plastics and stock is clean/dry when we put it in
We never put any foreign chemical in the machine except a bit of mineral spirits to clean the table which we wipe off and this is minimal.

The wipers left a gummy sticky residue on the waycovers, and are brittle/pitted or missing in some areas on the waycover.
So Hennig agrees the material is showing "dissolution" and appears to be a chemical breakdown.

It would be appreciated to hear from anyone who uses Synergy 735 if you have seen similar issues.

Thanks,
Steve
 
There is a thread specifically about synergy 735 which might contain more information on the subject. How much did you run the machine in the 4 years? It seems like that's a pretty good lifespan on parts that are essentially wear items. Are they really expensive or difficult to replace? Are you worried brand new ones won't last another 4 years?

Regarding Synergy and it's plastic destroying properties, yes, it seems possible if not likely it accelerated the deterioration of the wipers. It's amazing how many parts are made out of crappy plastics even on high end machines that would normally be fine until the synthetic gets involved. A polyurethane should be good at holding up to it but there are many different flavors of polyurethane so who knows. Regardless, we have had first hand experience with the synergy 735 eating different types of plastic machine components from wipers to bumpers to gaskets to waycover straps. I'm extremely careful when replacing things like gaskets, o-rings, or seals to only use some kind of silicone or FKM when possible. Other more unique components sometimes require a more creative fix for extended life.
 
Thanks Billy,
I have been following the synergy 735 thread, but will go through it again, thanks for the reminder.
I appreciate your feedback and comments.

We are a design/prototype and light production shop so the machine has not been run hard. I found the wipers were pricy from Doosan, and very reasonable from Hennig (same exact parts from what I can see so far). I have not yet changed wipers on the Doosan so I am not sure how hard it will be, in any case we will figure it out and next time will be easier.

I didn't know what a reasonable time frame would be for changing wipers, 4 years seems rather soon for light use. What is typical in your experience? Based on the specs on the coolant, I did not expect to have this problem, especially so soon.

I am concerned about other possible failed gaskets in the machine, and the potential impact and cost of this, so I need to learn more to figure out if other plastic components have degraded and where they may be located. I will speak to Doosan about this concern and see what they say.

Thanks for sharing your experience regarding Synergy. We will change the wipers, keep running and keep learning about areas in the machine that are plastic and exposed to coolant that may be affected. We will learn if problem is more wide spread in other areas this is my main concern. I like the coolant, and the machine but am concerned about the cost and downtime if other plastic is degraded from the coolant exposure.

I may change to another coolant but want to learn more first, Blaser did suggest others that may not be so rough on the plastic.
I would prefer not to switch coolant, but would like to know how much effort it will be to keep everything in good shape and if we are in for more issues with degraded plastic being affected than just the wipers.

This is my first new machine and we are small shop so this is a learning experience. Thanks for letting me know how you approach this type of maintenance and with what materials for the gaskets, O-rings and seals. We have been maintaining an old Haas VF1 so we have changed wipers and gotten an older machine running that had many problems like this (not using Synergy though). In general, this will help us learn more about the machine, so I appreciate your suggestions,
Thanks
Steve
 
Hello! We're sorry for our extreme delay in response. We're ramping up our communication efforts. Did you end up making a switch? We'd love to know how we can help further. Thank you!
 
I am having issues with the Synergy 735 in our new Haas VF-4. It seems to have completely broken down the coating on the way covers and has left a sticky film that is impossible to remove. We are also having issues in our UMC-500 where it seems to be attacking the zinc coating on all of the fasteners..
 
I am having issues with the Synergy 735 in our new Haas VF-4. It seems to have completely broken down the coating on the way covers and has left a sticky film that is impossible to remove. We are also having issues in our UMC-500 where it seems to be attacking the zinc coating on all of the fasteners..
We're sorry to hear this!! If you haven't reached out to your representative already, please feel free to private message us with your name, preferred method of contact (email or phone number), your shop name, and location, and we'll work with your local representative to escalate this!
 
I am having issues with the Synergy 735 in our new Haas VF-4. It seems to have completely broken down the coating on the way covers and has left a sticky film that is impossible to remove. We are also having issues in our UMC-500 where it seems to be attacking the zinc coating on all of the fasteners..
The 735 really needs to be mixed with good water to prevent rusting. DI or RO...
 
It's not rust, and so far in any of our other machines we haven't had any rusting issues but we do get some distinct "staining" under fixtures and vises that we never got with our other coolant and we do have a DI system setup for the Synergy. Got some info from another shop that it seems in an effort for Haas to continue to "cheapen" their machines, the way covers have some sort of a "galvanized" coating which the coolant attacks and breaks down. I wish my rep explained that before charging up the machine. Unfortunate because other than being ridiculously expensive, we have been pretty happy overall.
 
Sorry, I guess I assumed the zinc plating getting nasty was early signs of corrosion. The zinc plating breaking down is essentially just the step before things start rusting.
 
The 735 really needs to be mixed with good water to prevent rusting. DI or RO...
Not sure where you got this info. I can say DI is no magic bullet in regards to rust, in my experience. The coolant dries so clean, you can be exposed to surface rust when I used D.I. Might be non-typical use in my case as the machine would sit for extended periods.
I haven't done any head to head testing but I hear municipal water is better.
YMMV
 
My 2 cents as a coolant nerd,

@serview
4 years and have a polymer wiper break down with full Synth coolant, not too bad, I would say its fine, my Haas machines with standard semi-synth coolant broke down in 1 year.
You shouldn't top off with straight water, 1% minimum.

@dcrace
This is a coating that Haas put on the way covers, Its not the Synergy, It happens regardless of the coolant used, most people just sand it off.


Good water doesn't reduce rust, RO or DI water will act more like an oxidizer than tap water, because its missing minerals it will attach/leech,oxidize the metal in the machine.
but the filtered water is better for coolant longevity though, as far as getting over mineralized. Causing mineral build up and coolant stability issues.
 








 
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