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Brother Speedio Purchase Questions

Hi BrotherFrank, thanks for the feedback. Do you have any opinion on the Renishaw OTS tool diameter function? I am not planning on using a lot a re-grinds, but if it worked well, it seems like a big increase in functionality that is lacking with the Blum.
 
Hi BrotherFrank, thanks for the feedback. Do you have any opinion on the Renishaw OTS tool diameter function? I am not planning on using a lot a re-grinds, but if it worked well, it seems like a big increase in functionality that is lacking with the Blum.

In my region, I've started defaulting folks to the Blum XZ Speed which does diameter + length.

I still think diameter touch setting in-machine is mediocre. Measuring and adjusting offsets will always give better results as it takes the full process into account. Lasers are great, but constant reliability headaches and the cost is often a lot more than what anyone buying a Brother class machine wants to spend. If you really want to get into complete tool metrology- buy a Zoller (or similar).

Having said that; diameter measurements are nice to have! I have plenty of weirdo end mills that don't match the book numbers - being able to get a somewhat accurate idea of their actual cutting diameter would be nice. Also, touching off face mills automatically is a big deal as Brother expands into more shops while operator skills are kinda plummeting. On the D00, Blum (and Renishaw) now have probing GUIs that make touch off tools for lower skilled folks very easy. Oh, and the MDI now does sub-program calls and is fully featured, which is nice!
 
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Hi BrotherFrank, thanks for the feedback. Do you have any opinion on the Renishaw OTS tool diameter function? I am not planning on using a lot a re-grinds, but if it worked well, it seems like a big increase in functionality that is lacking with the Blum.
I have never seen anyone use the diameter function or reground end mills ! The Znano is fast, accurate, reliable ... The straight down plunge action of the Znano is much better than the tilt to the side of the OTS in my opinion.


Znano tool detection at 16,000 rpm, thanks Matt@RFR:
 
Thanks for the reply. Any downsides to the Blum XZ vs the ZNano? They didn't sacrifice anything on the tool setting/too breakage side to give you width?

Getting really close on this thing :)
 
Thanks for the reply. Any downsides to the Blum XZ vs the ZNano? They didn't sacrifice anything on the tool setting/too breakage side to give you width?

Getting really close on this thing :)
I'm a big believer of the KISS principle. If I am not going to use the Dia/Rad function, why would I want to complicate things? The Znano is rock solid. We have installed well over a thousand of them I am sure. Most are likely still in service. Face mills can still be automatically touched off in Z on a Znano. I have a macro somewhere that can check all of the inserts of a multi-pocket face mill and let you know if any are off by a set threshold. Congrats on the new machine in your near future!

Just noticed the ZX has a minimum tool diameter of 1mm where the Znano is .1mm. The ZX does the tilt to the side thing...
 
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I think I am going with the znano because of the sheer number of installs. However as gkoenig said, I could see how it could be nice in a pinch if you have an oddball cutter in your drawer and you want a quick diameter check.

That said, only if it were to come for 'free'. I would want to make zero compromises on the tool setting and broken tool performance.

Congrats on the new machine in your near future
I appreciate that. I am really happy about it. Working with Yamazen has been fantastic as well.
 
Face mills can still be automatically touched off in Z on a Znano. I have a macro somewhere that can check all of the inserts of a multi-pocket face mill and let you know if any are off by a set threshold.

Perhaps you have a different macro, but the versions I've seen require the user to:

1- Mod the macro with the proper number of inserts/diameter.
2- Ensure the face mill is oriented in the machine properly, so those inserts are timed with the touches.

I've already had that last point cause a couple of crashes on user machines. Operators thought they touched off the face mill with new inserts, oriented it wrong, set the offset between inserts (about 0.1" above where the cutting edges actually were), and had a very bad day.

I could take or leave diameter setting most of the time, but touching off face mills so easily is worth it. And I will absolutely take diameter setting on things like saws, thread-mills (where the crest on most is totally different from the listed diameter), undercutting chamfer mills, dovetail cutters, etc etc. In my mind, that ability is more valuable than smoking fast initial tool setting.

Given that we do not use Blum macros for tool break detection, there is no speed penalty for running the XZ Speed. Simply an M120 code to see if the skip signal is on.

Just noticed the ZX has a minimum tool diameter of 1mm where the Znano is .1mm. The ZX does the tilt to the side thing...

We've gone down to .37mm with the XZ Speed, though we did slow it down from the book settings to do so.

So far, I've seen no practical disadvantages to the XZ Speed, but the Portland U500 showroom machine is getting one, so I'll be running it through it's paces pretty hard here soon.
 
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Well, I pulled the trigger this morning on the S700xd1 16k BBT with 21T (low ceiling garage 😒). I appreciate all the input from the contributors in this thread; you really helped make me feel good about my decision. I am pretty excited. Martin and Dennis at Yamazen West were great to work with, as was Chad and Oscar at the demo in the Yorba Linda showroom.

Gkoenig, thanks for you input on the XZ Speed. I have the option to upgrade to that at a later date if it proves out.
 
Well, I pulled the trigger this morning on the S700xd1 16k BBT with 21T

Are they stocking the 21 tool xd1's now? When I had talked to them a month or so ago Yamazen was saying that the 21 tool xd1 was special order but they might bring a few in as stock for garage shops.
 
Mine was a special order. I heard the same. They would like to stock them for garage guys, but no definite answer.
 
Mine was a special order. I heard the same. They would like to stock them for garage guys, but no definite answer.
Gotcha. Hopefully that end up bringing some through. One of my friends has a 28 tool xd1 in his garage. The control is pretty sweet, you're going to like it.

On a side note, if you haven't rounded up rigging yet, I would whole heartedly recommend the guys at Lawson. They'll be putting a S700 in my garage out in Sacramento in about a week or so and have been absolutely top notch so far.
 
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Yeah, it was a little tough to swallow, 4 months lead time, no price break because special order, and seven less tools. Still was tempting, but I was going to have to really tear apart my garage.

I have been trying to make myself feel better by telling myself that the machine will be more accurate with the more rigid casting and less rotating mass on the tool changer.

All this while know the official brother documentation shows same accuracy/precision for all models regardless of tool changer.

Whatever ever makes you feel better, right? :)
 
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Also, I have heard really good things about them. I have had a good experience with John Vierra as well. It will be one of those two.

Are they receiving the machine from Yamazen at their yard for you?
 
Yeah, it was a little tough to swallow, 4 months lead time, no price break because special order, and sevens less tools. Still was tempting, but I was going to have to really tear apart my garage.
Was it getting through the door thats the issue or popping a hole in the drywall that was the deal breaker?

Also, I have heard really good things about them. I have had a good experience with John Vierra as well. It will be one of those two.

Are they receiving the machine from Yamazen at their yard for you?
Yamazen is shipping mine straight to Lawson. This was Lawsons request. No clue if thats so they can pull it out of the spaceship box or just so they can control all the logistics. Pretty sure my neighborhood would kick me out if I had two flatbeds show up at once so it works just fine for me. I am really impressed with them. Their foreman came out, did a walk around, and made a video recording exactly what to bring, how to set up ramps, and how to move the machine for his guys. Very impressive and they've been way more accommodating than I would have ever expected for a random 2000 dollar job that likely isn't going to repeat.
 
"Portland U500 showroom machine"


I'm sorry, WHAT? There is a Portland showroom now? When did that happen? Who is the salesman in Oregon now anyway?
 
"Portland U500 showroom machine"


I'm sorry, WHAT? There is a Portland showroom now? When did that happen? Who is the salesman in Oregon now anyway?
Greg Koenig. The smart looking guy with the cigar above your post. The new showroom is in Camas. We will be up and running with a U500 by the end of next month.


Andy
 
Cool. The things you learn in here.
Hey, is the difference between a S500X2 and S500Xd1 strictly control related or are the machines physically different?
 
Was it getting through the door thats the issue or popping a hole in the drywall that was the deal breaker?
Both, more than likely. The Yamazen guys were trying to do what they could to get the 28T changer to fit. I only have 81" maybe 82.5" if I remove the trim. I would have to start tearing things down to get a good idea. I can't tell from the inside because the garage is finished. They were thinking that they might be able to get it to a little over 83" (unofficial), but that was the ultimate lowest.

Once inside, the new high point on the 28T machine is the turret cover which from the drawings was around 99.6" or so. I probably could have just run it without the cover or recessed a trough section in the ceiling, but in the end, there were too many question marks to make me feel comfortable with my particular situation.

That is really good to hear about Lawson. I will definitely have them price the job. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
Both, more than likely The Yamazen guys were trying to do what they could to get the 28T changer to fit. I only have 81" maybe 82.5" if I remove the trim. I would have to start tearing things down to get a good idea. I can't tell from the inside because the garage is finished. They were thinking that they might be able to get it to a little over 83" (unofficial), but that was the ultimate lowest.

Once inside the new high point on the 28T machine is the turret cover which from the drawings was around 99.6" or so. I probably could have just run it without the cover or recessed a trough section in the ceiling, but in the end, there were too many question marks to make me feel comfortable with my particular situation.

That is really good to hear about Lawson. I will definitely have them price the job. Thanks for the recommendation.
Fair enough. It's probably too late but one of my good friends and day job suppliers put a 28 tool machine through his garage door. The tool changer has to come off but its incredibly easy (the thing is held on with a bolt circle and two dowels. I think it took them like 15 minutes to get it off). Past that, it's the same height as the 21 tool machine afaik. So if you can get a 21 tool machine through the door, you can almost certainly get a 28 tool machine through. I have pics if you want them. As far as I know, his is the only 28 tool machine that anyone has tried putting through a door. Yamazen was similarly uncertain about it (nothing against Yamazen for this) but it was one of the most simple things I've seen in a while.

Garin has been my point of contact at Lawson. He's awesome and I would definitely recommend him. Not sure if he handles just the sacramento office or also the bay area office.
 
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I am pretty close to you.. over in the Green Valley/Fairfield area. Sounds like he would cover my territory as well. That is really interesting about the turret removal. I will PM you with my email. I would love to see the pictures. I think I may still be able to upgrade, but then I would lose the benefit of my more accurate and more precise machine... :D (see post 72). All kidding aside, if I could easily get it in through the header I might more seriously consider making a relief in the ceiling. Maybe just plant it, load up 28 indexable broaching tools in long-reach holders, and let it rip its own relief. Serious battle bot vibes.

For the height of the machine. This is what I was working from: 16.7" for the new cover, and 82.9" from the feet to the top of the cabinet. My garage ceiling is 95".


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