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Brother Spindle Probe Costs

I'm looking for some historical cost figures for installing a Blum/Renishaw spindle probe into a Brother.
I bought a Renishaw OTS-AA tool setter and OMP-60 for Ct40 taper in 2018

OTS-AA Tool Setter - $2,100
OMP60 Spindle Probe + Hardware + CAT40 holder + 100mm Probe Shank - $3,750
CAT40 Calibration Master - $400
 
The Blum stuff is significantly more expensive than Renishaw, but worth it if speed matters. And Blums Znano tool setter is worlds better than anything from Renishaw in my opinion.

I bought a complete Blum TC-52 probe kit for spares late 2022 (complete with electronics, wiring, etc.), only thing missing is the actual tool setter. $7,652.34.

The initial cost of this system, complete with two tool setters for a twin pallet machine, was $10,860 from Yamazen.
 
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I'd think in the $6-7k range for an S series, but labor is a decent chunk so you you'll need to talk to Yamazen for anything approaching real numbers.

On the bright side they (Yamazen) seem to be busy enough to not hound you after an RFQ. Don't make that mistake with Hurco....
 
Thanks for the pricing. Looks like current pricing is still in line with this for the Blum as I just got a quote back for around 7.5k for a TC-52.
 
The Blum stuff is significantly more expensive than Renishaw, but worth it if speed matters. And Blums Znano tool setter is worlds better than anything from Renishaw in my opinion.

I can't speak to retrofits, but Blum is significantly less than Renishaw on new machines. The install costs are the same, but the hardware is about 10% more, and Inspection+ tacks another $1200 or so onto the Renishaw. Blum rolls the macro pricing into the whole install kit.

Having worked with both (Renishaw is on my personal machine), the Blum TC52 + Z Nano setup is much superior to the Renishaw OMP-40/OTS combination. The Blum optical switching allows for single hits at fast feed rates with the same accuracy/repeatability, which doesn't impact setups, but has a big cycle time saving on in-process probing for automation applications.

We have a lot of customers who I try to educate about in-process probing with their robot setups, and they tend to not want to give up what they think will be 20 seconds of cycle. I set up some very basic in-process checks and usually have it done with the Blum in 5 seconds, including the tool changes on either end.

Two other things going on that folks might not know about:

- Blum and Brother Japan have partnered up and there has already been a public demo of Blum Easy Set graphical probing running in an app on the new D-00 control, including running the probe macros from MDI, and kinematic setting of 4/5 axis rotary centers. Should be out pretty soon.

- I bought Renishaw back in the day because Renishaw offered a crash replacement program; Blum and Yamazen now offer the same. If you bork your TC-52, Yamazen/Blum will take the busted spindle probe in on trade for a significant discount on a new one. This is only for
 
By no means as fast as some of the demos by people who know that they are doing. However this is stock Blum macros via Fusion360

 
By no means as fast as some of the demos by people who know that they are doing. However this is stock Blum macros via Fusion360


You are super close to maxing this out. Couple of things to tweak:

1- I've taken all the Probe On/Off codes, put them in a program, and assigned them to separate programs for Spindle Probe On/Off. Use the motion to the part to turn the probe on, use the motion during the end tool change to turn it off. Your goal, as always - the machine never stops moving.

You're already running the M1/M2/M3 to control probe power up/down sequence... take that to the next level. All your G65 P8700 calls should be M3 - we'll turn the probe on/off manually. Easily 2 seconds of savings.

2- Ditch the protected move. It has pauses and you're wasting 1.5 seconds. Just rapid right to the top where you start the XY hits.

3- Use the Q and R values to control overtravel. Probably another 2 seconds of unnecessary travel across all 4 touches.

Now, for low-volume run of a hundred parts, don't do any of this! But if we're talking about setting up a process that is in the high hundreds or thousands - where multiplying 4-5 seconds saved starts to add up to real time/money, tweaks like this take about 10 minutes to implement and are totally worth it.
 
I can't speak to retrofits, but Blum is significantly less than Renishaw on new machines. The install costs are the same, but the hardware is about 10% more, and Inspection+ tacks another $1200 or so onto the Renishaw. Blum rolls the macro pricing into the whole install kit.
Thanks for the correction. It dawned on me that I was comparing 2022 Blum / Yamazen pricing to 2010's Renishaw / Haas pricing. :rolleyes5:
- I bought Renishaw back in the day because Renishaw offered a crash replacement program; Blum and Yamazen now offer the same. If you bork your TC-52, Yamazen/Blum will take the busted spindle probe in on trade for a significant discount on a new one.
You know, it sure would be nice if Yamazen would disseminate this kind of thing voluntarily. If I crashed a probe before I read your post, I would have tossed it, used my spare and ordered a new one, since I would have no idea anything had changed.

Same goes for accuracy code updates / upgrades / documentation, control updates.... who knows what else we don't know.
 
I'll reply to Greg off list, but just in case anyone cares, I've been working on improving the Fusion360 post for the Brother + Blum. eg it now turns the probe on and leaves it on for all moves (speed!). Lots of other things as well! (like fixing the actual probing macros for Blum...)

Changelist here:
https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusion-360-post-processors/commits/main

Post here:
https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusion-360-post-processors

I concede I'm rather green, but I've started to find the probe rather useful for production stuff.... Really glad I purchased it (got the TC-52 spindle probe + z-nano)
 
Well, maybe with If Yamazen has a deal with blum their replacement program will be reasonable. In the past blum has been a joke for replacement /repair. I had a znano that got coolant in it. Their fix was that they’d sell me another at 10% off. Scumbags!
 
Well, maybe with If Yamazen has a deal with blum their replacement program will be reasonable. In the past blum has been a joke for replacement /repair. I had a znano that got coolant in it. Their fix was that they’d sell me another at 10% off. Scumbags!

Yea, such stories are why I didn't buy Blum back in the day. Mind you, I'm an obnixious prick who isn't house trained, so in my first meeting with a high-up Blum rep, I flat out told him I didn't have Blum in my machine because of such stories from back in the day when I bought mine (~2018). He gave me the mea culpa and said that they were aware of the rep being built and worked on their warranty policy as well as with Yamazen to develop the replacement program for Yamazen/Speedio customers. The hardware has also been through a couple of revisions since, and so far - I've seen nothing but great service from Blum team. We have customers doing some tricky things in my region, and they've been fantastic to work with.
 
Also, regarding just the tool length probes, it’s a stinking precision limit switch. The blum tool length probe i had was just a plunger with a little flag on the bottom ( inside) that interrupts a slot photo electric switch. Hardly worth what they want for them.
 
Don't forget Blum using polycabonate for the windows in their probes and when they cratered, because that is a comonly known issue with polycarbonate, Blum did nothing.
 
Sure. See my changes here:

This is based off the latest autodesk post. Then you you want to check through the commit history and grab all the changes which look like they are probing related (not so many), eg the main two are these:
- https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusio...mmit/b9c661ca99d11f994c6718824977aa2a2203050b
- https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusio...mmit/a147b0c913522f32dff325d892663ca23f4ab48b

Merge those changes into your post and you should be pretty close.

This gets you speeds which look like this:

Note there is still a little fat you could trim in that if you modified the Blum macros as supplied. For example, send the turn on command BEFORE the tool change. Also, given that we never do two probe ops in a row, you could change the turn off to not wait for confirm and just move on. Those would save another 0.3s - 0.5s or so.
 
Sure. See my changes here:

This is based off the latest autodesk post. Then you you want to check through the commit history and grab all the changes which look like they are probing related (not so many), eg the main two are these:
- https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusio...mmit/b9c661ca99d11f994c6718824977aa2a2203050b
- https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusio...mmit/a147b0c913522f32dff325d892663ca23f4ab48b

Merge those changes into your post and you should be pretty close.

This gets you speeds which look like this:

Note there is still a little fat you could trim in that if you modified the Blum macros as supplied. For example, send the turn on command BEFORE the tool change. Also, given that we never do two probe ops in a row, you could change the turn off to not wait for confirm and just move on. Those would save another 0.3s - 0.5s or so.
Using a repo for a post editing. I like it. I'll have to look into that.
 
Sure. See my changes here:

This is based off the latest autodesk post. Then you you want to check through the commit history and grab all the changes which look like they are probing related (not so many), eg the main two are these:
- https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusio...mmit/b9c661ca99d11f994c6718824977aa2a2203050b
- https://github.com/ewildgoose/fusio...mmit/a147b0c913522f32dff325d892663ca23f4ab48b

Merge those changes into your post and you should be pretty close.

This gets you speeds which look like this:

Note there is still a little fat you could trim in that if you modified the Blum macros as supplied. For example, send the turn on command BEFORE the tool change. Also, given that we never do two probe ops in a row, you could change the turn off to not wait for confirm and just move on. Those would save another 0.3s - 0.5s or so.
Oh c'mon Ed, get rid of the return to center on the rectangle cycle! Another .5s easy!
You could run 4 single point cycles and have a pass through to do the arithmetic inside Fusion so you aren't actually modifying the Blum cycles on the control.
 
Hehe! If that one was making you twitch, then this is going to spoil your day! Overspecified or what! 🤣
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cv0PcfDoWlf/

Generally I've been running tests to ensure that the Fusion output matches the simulation. So for example the Blum angled measure moves don't make the pitchfork shape, but come in on one side and then step across. So I had to break those down into single moves to emulate (the Renishaw) moves that Fusion simulates. Yeah, why you would be trying to drive your probe through a maze to touch the part, I know, but it seemed like a nice touch that what you see is what you get!

Few things still missing from the Brother post on probing. One is finding the location of a corner of two angled planes. Only accessible through "inspection". And the other is the inspection stuff. I should be able to get to both over the next few months. Neither is hard, just that I don't have a need for it yet and it involves paying for the extra Fusion license that I don't own yet...

Tool wear does work though. And you can kind of enable this without paying for the Fusion add-on if you are a little tricky.

The latest post doesn't use G0 moves for most of the probing. So if you smash the probe into something it SHOULD stop! The main exception is the initial move is done as part of the tool change (G100 call). However, I already added a feature to break this up for the R machine users, so I could turn the Z move into a "protected move". I had the idea to send that Z move twice, first as a "Protected move" with the optional "/" on the line and then a G0 move straight after. The idea would be that after you test out the program you can press Block Skp and skip the slower protected move into position. Anyway, watch this space.

Note that any integrators are more than welcome to use this as the starting point for paid customisations, or to grab pieces for different posts. This is all open source. (I wouldn't say no to a credit if you find any changes useful though!)
 
Close to buying a new Brother, tempted to buy a blum probe for the app probing and kinematics.

Unfortunatley Blum's service is the worst exeprince I've ever had. Blum spindle probe stop working on a new Mikron(one year old show room machine). Not sure what happened as body was intact, possible it was bumped as I stepped out while running in porcess inspection. Had GF pick it up and bring it to Blum for repair. Took 1.5 months to get a report that told me pretty much nothing at all, and another 1.5 months to get it repaired. Meanwhile Blum Taiwan had no alternatives other than buying a new one. Not having the probe for 3 months was not funny at all.

I was so annyoed I almost decided to just swap all the BLUM stuff to Renishaw, untill I realized removing that laser and buying a new Renishaw one was a pretty decent chunk of change.
 








 
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