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Brown and Sharpe #10 Tool and Cutter grinder

Jimmer12

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Location
Ontario, Canada
I'm not sure if this should be here in Antique Machinery or not, but I am looking for opinions on an B&S #10 T&C grinder. Were these machines good cutter grinders, and what sort of capabilities does it have? ie. end mills, drills, counter bores, countersinks etc.?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Welcome to forum Jim.

B&S did not make bad stuff. The #10 is the small one. The larger one was the #13. No T&C grinder will do much without all the attachments it was sold with. How well equipped is this one?
 
I guess the issue is that I have no idea how well equipped it is because I don't know what it came with to begin with. I have been googling trying to find a parts/service manual, but no luck. The machine is actually at work, so i'm gonna try to get some photos of it and post them up and maybe you guys can help me figure out how complete it is.
 
Brown and Sharpe also made a model 10 N.
If that is what you have rather than the older plain Model 10 I might be able to help you since I own a 10N
I have attached a picture of it.

Regards,
Jim
 

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Brown and Sharpe also made a model 10 N.
If that is what you have rather than the older plain Model 10 I might be able to help you since I own a 10N
I have attached a picture of it.
I'm having problems to rotate the picture .
I'll try and fix it later but you will get the idea.
Regards,
Jim

Do you know what the difference between a 10 and a 10N is? I haven't seen any markings that look like 10N on it.
 
Jim,
The only part on mine that says 10 N is the plate on the wheel head .
There is a cast plate attached to the left hand side with the serial number stamped into it .
This machineis from the early 1950s and the relief grinding attacment on the table is a Hybco so not an original part of this machine.
The other #10 machines I that I have seen I think were a generation older in style than this one .
I'll see if I can find a link to one that I have in mind.
A picture of the machine you are asking about would be helpful .
The 10 N is very well made grinder and in my opinion equal to and on some features better than a Cincinnati #2 of the same vintage but is not as versitile as some newer grinders .
Regards,
Jim

P.S. hereis a # 10 from the 1930 s and I think there is another older version aswell

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=13872

The 10 N has roller bearing ways on the table where as it looks like the #10 in this link doesn't
 
After seeing the pic you attached and the link you included, I'm certain the one at work is a 10, not a 10N. I will take my camera with me to work tonight and see if I can get some decent photos.
 
I snapped these 2 pics at work this week, maybe you guys can have a look at it and see what you think? I don't know if there is any other tooling or accessories to go with it or not, they haven't used it in about 5 years, so there is a chance any other tooling has been lost somewhere.

IMG00117-20121101-2119.jpgIMG00118-20121101-2119.jpgIMG00119-20121101-2119.jpg
 
With the motorized work head, which is not B&S, you could do some "Universal" work with it, but no T&C grinding


I snapped these 2 pics at work this week, maybe you guys can have a look at it and see what you think? I don't know if there is any other tooling or accessories to go with it or not, they haven't used it in about 5 years, so there is a chance any other tooling has been lost somewhere.

View attachment 62356View attachment 62357View attachment 62358
 
John, I never used a T&C grinder (although I do dream to setup my Bath Universal someday) - so just asking. Can't the motorized head be removed and the horizontal spindle built in the machine be used for T&C work with the right fixtures. End mills fixture is a very simple item, well the one like a collet that lets you grind the ends. I would guess some other generic fixtures could be found. I hope so; because my machine is missing all the fancy jigs and holder stuff. I do have a magnetic chuck. My head rotates around - cannot tell if this does. That would be the key to switching from T&C to Surface grinding for a Universal machine?
 
Motorized head comes right off. The attachments it was sold with to do T&C grinding are not in view. These would include various OTHER non motorized (and possibly indexing or drill holding) heads, centers for things like long end mills or reamers and circular cutters on arbors/mandrels, finger holders for the fingers that allow indexing flute to flute, etc, etc, etc. One of the essentials for this work is a table that glides back and forth effortlessly - does this one still do that?
 
Motorized head comes right off. The attachments it was sold with to do T&C grinding are not in view. These would include various OTHER non motorized (and possibly indexing or drill holding) heads, centers for things like long end mills or reamers and circular cutters on arbors/mandrels, finger holders for the fingers that allow indexing flute to flute, etc, etc, etc. One of the essentials for this work is a table that glides back and forth effortlessly - does this one still do that?

This one still moves nice and smoothly. It hasn't been used for several years and probably has a fair bit of dust. If I end up taking it home I think I would be tearing it down and doing a clean up and lube. But it has hardly any use. The guys at work said the most its been used for is regrinding transfer punch points, and has never been used for cutters as far as they know, they have always just sent their cutters out. They have a bin of cutters and reamers and taps and drills at work marked "broken cutters" that to my eye all look like they could still be reground if someone took the time to do it.

I was originally thinking I was going to build one of the T&C kits out there for my home shop, until I started working here and saw this one collecting dust and being used to hold the bag of fresh rags. I'm thinking even if the accessories are missing, I was going to end up building one anyway, I could use this as a starting point and build or buy the tooling and fixtures to get it really functional.
 
With the drip feed oilers on the grinding head spindle it looks like that machine runs on bronze bearings so since it has been sitting for a long time, before you turn it on at a bare minimum grab an oil can and put some oil in the oilers and make sure that there is some oil leaking out of the bearings .
There are others on this forum who are more qualified than my self to recommend what oil to use over the long term and how to care for these bearings .
I know engine oil containing detergents if frowned upon but it is better than nothing if that is all you have to put in there incase someone comes along to just give it a quick spin to see what happens.
I think the work head on there is a K.O.Lee .
You can see the range of attachments that was available with them in these links and the #10 would have had a similar range of equipment to go with it when it was new.
KOLee > Home
Tool and Cutter Grinders
http://www.kolee.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=bKVLIRct/8k=&tabid=108

I’ll try and add some more later but thought I should remind you not to run the machine on dry bearings especially if they are bronze or Babbitt .
Regards,
Jim
 
what oil to use over the long term and how to care for these bearings

I run Exxon Mobil Velocite #6 or #10 in the #4 Universal. It comes out in a fine spray.:)

The bearings run warm, but not hot. The adjustment design has class. The bearing is tapered on OD but has a straight bore.

There is a nut on both ends to position bearing in adjusting same. The most unnoticeable feature is that the slot thru the bearing
wall that enables adjustment is filled with a fitted phenolic piece. You don't get to make the bearing tighter until you make the phenolic
thinner. A thousandth off the phenolic lets you close up the bearing .000318" on diameter. Yes, I put the correct number of zeros after the decimal point.
 

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More scans.
In a previous post John Oder mentioned the need for sensitive movement for cutter grinding .
In the previous set of pictures You can see the roller bearing tables that make the movement very light and sensitive compared with machines with the older flat and vee ways that are shown on the #10 in the OWWM. Link.
Regards,
jim
 

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Thanks for all the additional info guys. I meant to mention in my previous posts that it is indeed a K.O. Lee workhead on there. I had a better look at it today, and the spindle is free and does not feel rough, the table moves surprisingly smoothly considering how long it has been sitting. I need to talk to some of the guys there and find out if there are any accessories laying around for it.
 








 
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