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Brown & Sharpe No. 2 Universal Light Type

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
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Brown & Sharpe
No.2
Universal
Light Type

This machine is 220, 3 phase, 3hp spindle motor (approx 10A) everything appears to be dual voltage and could be wired for 440. Catalog states 3700 lbs, but I can tell you a 5k truck works to pick it up.

Practically everything you would want to know:

Overall condition is good, everything functions, and has functioned for the last approximately 10 years of using it. It has been a great mill, I have used it in a variety of capacities, and it has always done the work. Power feed and rapid work in all 3 directions, even simultaneously if you're brave or stupid enough.

It is an 80+ year old machine, it has wear on the ways, runout in the spindle, and a few minor quirks/issues. The table has some bruises from previous owners, the worst of which is on the spindle face of the table, unfortunately all too common on horizontals. The feed selector is off 2 positions, but functions fine, so I never took it apart. The knee leaks some oil, but the machine seems to oil everything OK.
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The horizontal spindle is 3hp 40 taper. Drawbar is threaded for both 40 and 30 taper. Running a 6" face mill it will chug through a 4140 2" thick plate with gusto. You do have to be cautious of how you run your cutter, it is definitely NOT a K&T and if your inserts are not in constant contact, it will let you know!

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Vertical head (No. 0 Universal Milling Attachment) is in good working order, complete with the storage arm. It is a 2 to 1 spindle, increasing your breathtaking 1500 rpm to 3000. I converted the original 30 camlock spindle to 30 Erickson Quick Change. I know the purists will blanch, but it is a superior system, easier to use, and a hell of a lot easier to find holders for. I took apart the vertical spindle and cleaned 80 years of hard dried grease. The spindle has .001-.003 runout depending on how, where, and what you measure with. When I pulled the head apart for cleaning, I ordered a replacement NOS Timken tapered cone bearing. As no "precision" bearings are available, you'd really have to regrind the spindle to improve it. One of the studs has a broken "base", and is included.

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The dividing head is complete and in good working order. I also disassembled this (as little as possible) to remove the grease which was like concrete. This dividing head is a less common 20 to 1, and everything works as it should. The face index plate has a small crack. Included is the correct original set of gears, index plates, and everything necessary to do spiral milling. The spindle is a B&S #9, and includes a dead center with drive plate, and a Skinner 4 jaw chuck, also included is a Cincinatti adjustable tailstock. Included is an original intermediate gear plate, and a quick and dirty reverse gear plate that I made based on a picture. Not great, but it worked for what I needed to do.
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Included are two different over arm supports, one of which appears to be welded construction, however I only have 1 40 taper arbor, and it is not a very good one. Also included are the "rare" or rarely seen outrigger support and cross arms.
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Included are two boxes of cutters, one of "horizontal" cutters, and the other of gear cutters. They range from great condition to bad, but they are something to get started with if you have nothing.

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Negotiable with the sale of the machine is a small selection of 30 NMTB Erickson Quick Change holders, and a 6" 40 taper face mill and inserts. I have another machine that takes the 30NMTB, so I would prefer to keep my holders.

It is not a mint machine, and if you don't understand that you can still machine parts with .001" runout, this probably isn't the machine for you. It is a good workhorse. I have drilled some big holes, hogged some serious material, cut some intricate helical cams and spirals, it can do fine work, and I have done fine work with it, but boy is it a chore.

My plan, someday, was to restore it, and put it next to my K&T 2d and Moore No. 3, and mostly just marvel at what those machines contributed to our society. It's a beautiful machine, and after taking all the time to clean it up and gather up all the accessories, I'm chagrined to sell it. I had planned/hoped to have built another shop by now and be able to keep it.

I am asking $3250 for it, that includes my cost of $500 renting a 5k truck to load. I will load it on your trailer, with the over arms it can be gently set on a trailer with wheel wells, but a flat deck is best.

I think based on what I have seen on the market, the condition and my experience using it, the extent of the accessories, this is a fair and reasonable price.
 
As a basis for price comparison, my comperably sized Kempsmith Universal with vertical heads, comperable tooling, dividing head and a vise set me back a total of about $2300 (accumulated over time). The Kempsmith has auto feeds on all three axis but no rapids and most importantly, does not include the change gears and yoke necessary to drive the dividing head for cutting helical gears so I think the price is fair. If i were in the market for a horizontal i would give this consideration.
 
Included are two different over arm supports, one of which appears to be welded construction, however I only have 1 40 taper arbor, and it is not a very good one. Also included are the "rare" or rarely seen outrigger support and cross arms.
View attachment 429223
View attachment 429221

Included are two boxes of cutters, one of "horizontal" cutters, and the other of gear cutters. They range from great condition to bad, but they are something to get started with if you have nothing.

View attachment 429220

Negotiable with the sale of the machine is a small selection of 30 NMTB Erickson Quick Change holders, and a 6" 40 taper face mill and inserts. I have another machine that takes the 30NMTB, so I would prefer to keep my holders.

It is not a mint machine, and if you don't understand that you can still machine parts with .001" runout, this probably isn't the machine for you. It is a good workhorse. I have drilled some big holes, hogged some serious material, cut some intricate helical cams and spirals, it can do fine work, and I have done fine work with it, but boy is it a chore.

My plan, someday, was to restore it, and put it next to my K&T 2d and Moore No. 3, and mostly just marvel at what those machines contributed to our society. It's a beautiful machine, and after taking all the time to clean it up and gather up all the accessories, I'm chagrined to sell it. I had planned/hoped to have built another shop by now and be able to keep it.

I am asking $3250 for it, that includes my cost of $500 renting a 5k truck to load. I will load it on your trailer, with the over arms it can be gently set on a trailer with wheel wells, but a flat deck is best.

I think based on what I have seen on the market, the condition and my experience using it, the extent of the accessories, this is a fair and reasonable price.
I have a Brown and Sharpe #2 in pieces. It was given to me. Seems to be in great shape. I hate to scrap it, but it’s headed that way. If you know anyone needing parts, please send them my way. I will sell any and all pieces.
 
$2500 loaded on your trailer.

I'd like to get this moved out this Spring.

Maybe I should try facebook, that seems to be where people sell used machinery these days?

If not, I guess it'll go into storage.
 
Hi,
Not sure how to send a pm. Very interested in the mill. If you don't mind sending me a message on the forum, I'd like to discuss it further.
 
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Wow, you do spectacular work, EThomas!

smt
That he does!
I guess "light" is a relative term.

Steve
Compared to the normal No.2 which I believe clocks in at around 5k, it is "relatively" lighter!
Hi,
Not sure how to send a pm. Very interested in the mill. If you don't mind sending me a message on the forum or at [email protected], I'd like to discuss it further.
I'd remove your email from the public forum, you'll get spammed incessantly.
 
I have this same machine, mine is a fair bit rustier than yours. This is a fair deal for a very capable machine. Set ups do suck but for what it's capable of, it's a fair trade off.

@Fal Grunt I have two questions; could you please elaborate on the QC 30 conversion? Do you have it documented here somewhere?

Also, do you know what the 3 fingers coming off the front of the knee are for? (Shown at the bottom left in your picture) I've never been able to figure it out.

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I have this same machine, mine is a fair bit rustier than yours. This is a fair deal for a very capable machine. Set ups do suck but for what it's capable of, it's a fair trade off.

@Fal Grunt I have two questions; could you please elaborate on the QC 30 conversion? Do you have it documented here somewhere?

Also, do you know what the 3 fingers coming off the front of the knee are for? (Shown at the bottom left in your picture) I've never been able to figure it out.

View attachment 436194
I don't believe I documented the conversion to QC30 anywhere. I did the same to my K&T 2D, but other than some rudimentary sketches, I don't think I really drew much of anything up. On the surface it is a really simple conversion. There are some finer points to work out, as the drive lugs are different, but really the only modification besides those are turning the OD of the spindle for the lock nut.

The K&T was quite a bit more involved as I had to make a threaded sleeve to thread for the lock nut. Not really complicated, ID thread a sleeve, thread it to a near interference fit, thread it onto the spindle, chuck the spindle in the lathe and thread for the nut. Same issues with drive lugs, as the K&T has a recessed interface.

I can take some pictures and post them in the US heavy Iron section, and look to see if I have anything documented. It does make the machine much more usable vs the camlock. I always meant to make an insert that replaced the "cam" and then regrind the taper, but just have never gotten around to it.

As to the 3 prongs, I have often wondered about this as well. I was told once that the machine came with a wrench set that hung there.... but that never sat well with me. I don't see it.

And finally... it's an amazingly capable machine. As I joked with the gentleman on the phone today, I keep thinking of little jobs I use it for that I had forgotten about. Things that I have no other way of doing!
 
I have this machine too. It's the only mill I have. It's an amazing machine. I have the B&S 18" rotary table that goes with it, the shaper head, and two vertical heads (the fast speed one and the 2-1 one). I have wrenches in the 3 prong piece.
 








 
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