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BT30 Spindle Capabilities

Chips Everywhere

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
We are taking delivery of a Haas DT2 in a few weeks. The plan is to use the DT2 to produce 2 parts that had been running on the VF2SS, since its better suited for them and we need to make a lot of them. I am working on the CAM for the DT2, and have be referencing the VF2SS CAM that was used for these 2 parts. I know that BT30 machines are quite capable, but having never made a cut on one, I am a bit hesitant to just copy and paste the VF2 CAM onto the DT2, mainly the roughing operations. The rest of the operations are small drills, lots of chamfers, small taps, and smaller end mills 1/4" or smaller.

The DT2 has the 15k spindle, and HSM options. It is a dedicated machine for only machining Aluminum 6061-T.
As mentioned, my main concern is the roughing for these parts.

Here is my current roughing parameters from the VF2SS, and the tool holder I plan on using on the DT2. Do these sound fine for the DT2? To fast, too slow? Any input is greatly appreciated.

Holder: BT30 SK16-60mm
Tool: Helical 3 Flute Chip Breaker 45deg ZRN 1/2" x 1.25" LOC, 0.06" Corner Radius
Length Below holder: 1.375"
Cutting Parameters: 0.050-0.075" DOC X 1.10" LOC @ 15k rpm, 360-405ipm (0.008-0.009" chip load)
 
Last edited:

Mtndew

Diamond
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Michigan
Tool: Helical 3 Flute Chip Breaker 45deg ZRN 1/2" x 1.25" LOC, 0.06" Corner Radius
Length Below holder: 1.375"
Cutting Parameters: 0.050-0.075" DOC X 1.10" LOC @ 15k rpm, 360-405ipm (0.008-0.009" chip load)
That's almost as hard as I push the end mill on my Brother. But mine is a dual contact spindle.
 

BugRobotics

Stainless
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Location
Denver, CO
I've had some squealing with the SK16-60mm holders with longer stickout. I use stubby end mill holders for reduced stickout on the Brother when roughing. I'd definitely work up to that feedrate (maybe start at 150) and see how the spindle likes it.
 

Chips Everywhere

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Thanks for the reply. I may chuck up a couple pieces on a vice and test different feeds

I came across this video when I was first thinking about getting another machine. It looks like they are using a 3/8 tool:


Aside from some poor programming on the VF, I was just looking to see how the DT removed material.
 

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
I think you'd be askin' a bit too much from the DT with those parameters......................as mentioned, stubby EM holder for sure. 1/2" EM with minimal stick out will run fine in a 30 taper, but 1.375" is walkin' a very fine line of success or failure.................and I'll say it......your scenario would be challenging for a Brother and if we've learned and experienced anything from Haas..................the DT won't hold a candle to a Speedio, sorry............................
 

Chips Everywhere

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
I'll see if I can use a 1/2" EM with a 1.0" LOC for 1st Op roughing to reduce my tool stick out. I'll also start at 150 IMP and go up from there.

Would you guys try 0.075" DOC or just stick with 0.050"?

Thanks from the input
 

empower

Titanium
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
i would not use those parameters on a haas. a brother would run that no sweat.
although the chances of it actually reaching your programmed speeds are close to zero, so you might be fine.

DOC is depth of cut btw, you're looking at WOC (width of cut) or radial engagement/stepover.
 
Joined
May 26, 2004
Location
Paradise, Ca
1/2" 3FL, 1.100" DOC, 10-15% WOC, .008IPT should not be a problem. That WOC is very light. My experience is on a Brother, not sure if the Haas 30 taper will take the same cut.

I would change to a short sidelock as the other guys have said, start with the feed override down a little and go.

The one thing I would look in to is that 45º flute angle. The steeper that is, the more it acts like a screw trying to pull the endmill out. From lots of discussion about Brother machines, it seems that the pullstuds / drawbars are the weak point, and overpowering the drawbar will be a bad day. We use Imco Streakers that are 37º. I have no idea if that 8º difference is big enough to cause issues, but it's something to watch out for.

Also, if you get a blank that's too long or an operator doesn't get the blank up against the stop by any appreciable amount, you're going to have a bad day. We probe op1 for length (and alarm out if under or oversized by X) and set op1 work offset every single cycle on every single part.
 

crossthread82

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Location
Maryland
Like others have said that's not really that big of a cut might just back the feed off a bit to 250ish and see how it goes. Short gauge length is your friend so switching to a stubby side lock will pay dividends. Also @[email protected] brings up a good point about endmill helix angle; that tool from helical is available in a 35* version which will be a lot nicer to your drawbar. Not saying what you have is going to give you problems but in a 30 taper machine most of us like to stack the deck in our favor right from the beginning.

Edit- If it were me, I'd switch to a 3/8DIA 1-1.25LOC roughing tool like the helical you have but with the shallower helix angle. That allows you to run a 1.1" side lock holder instead of a 2.75" which will make a world of difference. You should be able to run a high quality 3/8 rougher at the parameters you described with out issue.
 

Finegrain

Diamond
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Location
Seattle, Washington
Would you guys try 0.075" DOC or just stick with 0.050"?

Thanks from the input
This is my standard roughing, 30-taper Brother Speedio S700X1:

Maritool serrated carbide 3-flute rougher
16,000 RPM
1-1/4" LOC (if needed)
.175" DOC (35% engagement)
288 IPM

This has worked well for me in 6061 for a few years. I dial it back a little in 7075.

Regards.

Mike
 

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
If a 1" LOC will work, drop down to a 3/8" EM.............that'll greatly reduce the radial engagement...........you then can pretty much run all out............your MMR could be the same or better than a reducing the parameters on a 1/2" EM
 

Chips Everywhere

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Are stub 1/2 end mill side lock holders ok to run at 15k? They are balanced to G2.5, but I usually never run side locks past 10k.

Anyone recommend 3 Flute roughers that accept side locks? The Helical ones are straight shank. Thanks

Thanks for the 3/8" EM recommendation, will look into them
 

GiroDyno

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Location
PNW
Even if you set your max feed a bit slower you could easily have a faster cycle because of higher acceleration on the DT. The VF might never get anywhere near your programmed 400IPM depending on what the shape and size of your part is.
The impulse to just swap programs is understandable, the controllers look the same why couldn't the programs be the same... tweaking a program you've happily run for days/weeks/years sucks, but it only sucks once. Running programs that aren't optimized is easy today, but it sucks every time you run that cycle.
 

Finegrain

Diamond
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Location
Seattle, Washington
Are stub 1/2 end mill side lock holders ok to run at 15k? They are balanced to G2.5, but I usually never run side locks past 10k.

Anyone recommend 3 Flute roughers that accept side locks? The Helical ones are straight shank. Thanks

Thanks for the 3/8" EM recommendation, will look into them
16k RPM all day long, it's OK.

I run the hell out of this tool, lasts for a really long time: Maritool 1/2" x 1-1/4" rougher

Destiny Diamondback is good too, but louder, more spindle load, and more pull-out force than the Maritool EM.

Regards.

Mike
 

Mtndew

Diamond
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Michigan
I run the hell out of this tool, lasts for a really long time: Maritool 1/2" x 1-1/4" rougher

Destiny Diamondback is good too, but louder, more spindle load, and more pull-out force than the Maritool EM.
Haven't tried those end mills from Mari-Tool yet. I typically use the Destiny Diamondback. Yes it's a little loud but I've done 10,000 parts with one of them, removing a ton of material per part.
The next time we get that job I'll put the Mari-Tool to the test.
 

Micmac1

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Not sure if they make in BT30 but the emuge FPC locking holder allowed us to almost double our feeds in our haas mini mill with 10k spindle going from a ct40 er32 holding a 1/2" endmill. Less noisy, less spindle load, better finish, honestly couldnt believe it. We just purchased some maritool big plus stuff for our new machine but have not had a chance to run them yet. Have heard good things tho.
 

Mtndew

Diamond
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Location
Michigan
Not sure if they make in BT30 but the emuge FPC locking holder allowed us to almost double our feeds in our haas mini mill with 10k spindle going from a ct40 er32 holding a 1/2" endmill. Less noisy, less spindle load, better finish, honestly couldnt believe it. We just purchased some maritool big plus stuff for our new machine but have not had a chance to run them yet. Have heard good things tho.
How do those work? They just use a pin for anti-rotate against the weldon flat?
Also do you remember how much the holder was?
 

Chips Everywhere

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Even if you set your max feed a bit slower you could easily have a faster cycle because of higher acceleration on the DT. The VF might never get anywhere near your programmed 400IPM depending on what the shape and size of your part is.
The impulse to just swap programs is understandable, the controllers look the same why couldn't the programs be the same... tweaking a program you've happily run for days/weeks/years sucks, but it only sucks once. Running programs that aren't optimized is easy today, but it sucks every time you run that cycle.

I agree 100% with your last sentence. It is cringy to watch bad programming sometimes, even on a very short run.

I’m always game to improve my programs and run more efficiently. The only reason I am copy/pasting some operations, is because I want to focus on the roughing first, since that’s the majority of the cycle time. The. I can start messing around with drills and taps.

Thank you everyone for the feedback, will place an order from Maritool, going to try both 3/8 and 1/2 end mills.
 

Comatose

Titanium
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Location
Akron, OH
I think you'd be askin' a bit too much from the DT with those parameters......................as mentioned, stubby EM holder for sure. 1/2" EM with minimal stick out will run fine in a 30 taper, but 1.375" is walkin' a very fine line of success or failure.................and I'll say it......your scenario would be challenging for a Brother and if we've learned and experienced anything from Haas..................the DT won't hold a candle to a Speedio, sorry............................
I wouldn't sweat that too much, the DT won't hold the programmed feedrate, either.
 








 
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