Building up machining capacity

[Garwood]

I recommend buying up. Even if it's old. Buy a much faster old machine. It isn't going to be more expensive than a shitty ancient Haas.

 

[Plane Parts]

I would go for it. As a solo shop does it really matter? I would assume you still have to deburr and prepare materials. If you get a faster machine your cycle times will increase but at the expense of you being at the machine without a chance to do other needed operations like filing or deburring. Do the math. But I would take a second machine if you had the space.

 

[Overland]

I remember a discussion on here a few years ago comparing the economics of a Haas & Makino vertical. The comparison was economics of buying either machine new.
One argument was that the Haas was cheaper, but the Makino cycle times were significantly quicker.
So the Makino was making more money each month, because of the cycle time, and even though the payments were higher, the Makino "cash-flowed" better overall.
There were some other benefits of holding size better, and more reliability, etc.

I guess the same logic might apply here, if the work is available.
A newer, better machine, better cycles, making more money, and making good economic sense, if the work is there.
Good luck.
Bob

 

[hend.engineering]

I remember a discussion on here a few years ago comparing the economics of a Haas & Makino vertical. The comparison was economics of buying either machine new.
One argument was that the Haas was cheaper, but the Makino cycle times were significantly quicker.
So the Makino was making more money each month, because of the cycle time, and even though the payments were higher, the Makino "cash-flowed" better overall.
There were some other benefits of holding size better, and more reliability, etc.

I guess the same logic might apply here, if the work is available.
A newer, better machine, better cycles, making more money, and making good economic sense, if the work is there.
Good luck.
Bob

Thanks Bob,

That's currently how I'm trying to treat this whole thing, see that bigger picture and see what leap up the ladder I can justify.
At the moment here in the UK DMG Mori are doing an amazing deal on an M1 machine with a 6month payment holiday, now that seems highly attractive and would be a huge boost to my productivity...but I would have to find some work to justify it!
But since we're comparing machines, what else is there that's good value in the VF2 scale of machine?

 

[Garwood]

I remember a discussion on here a few years ago comparing the economics of a Haas & Makino vertical. The comparison was economics of buying either machine new.
One argument was that the Haas was cheaper, but the Makino cycle times were significantly quicker.
So the Makino was making more money each month, because of the cycle time, and even though the payments were higher, the Makino "cash-flowed" better overall.
There were some other benefits of holding size better, and more reliability, etc.

I guess the same logic might apply here, if the work is available.
A newer, better machine, better cycles, making more money, and making good economic sense, if the work is there.
Good luck.
Bob

The economics of new Haas VS Makino is one thing, but used is totally different.

Haas can be a smart investment if you buy new. Used Haas not so much. Typical used Haas prices make for a poor value.

On the other hand, used high end production machines don't appeal to as many while at the same time typically they are being sold by real big deep pocketed companies that don't really care if they get top dollar for it.

Used premium machines can be a substantially better value than the used Haas.