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camel back drill press

I was lucky to score a very low millage Royersford [same as yours] with most if not all shims still in the bearings. What I found odd was that the driven pulley for the powerfeed was worn some. It is not adjustable. But,,, pictures I found of late production units showed a [screw in style] grease cup in place of the oil cup. Swapped one in and with grease in the [slow moving] shaft the play was reduced to tolerable. Been working like that for 4 years [farm shop, not everyday] with no ill affects and feeds fine. You might find a similar issue on yours, just a friendly tip on a possible solution.
 
I'll keep that in mind. Thank you. Iafter cleaning I don't have much movement there if I recall. I'll put a dial on it later in the game. I did find I have little runout but more deflection that I'm comfortable with. But that is for later as well.

I have been scratching my head on the removal of the main shaft. I thought I had it figured but ...not so much. Any suggestions or tricks? It feels like I'm missing something simple. Over thinking it perhaps.

Any way guys I started looking the motor over and I think a beaver was living in it. You'll see! I still have to do some bench testing and won't get around to it until I grab a day off from work. It does look like I may have something to work with though. I don't see or feel anything outwardly that causes any major concern. I'll post some pics when I can get back to my computer. Photos dont seem to want to post from my phone.
 
Todda:

I am not sure what you are referring to as "main shaft". I would guess you are referring to the spindle. If that is the case, the method of removing the spindle is usually pretty straightforward on this type of drill press.

The spindle turns in a sleeve which has the rack teeth to feed the spindle down into the work and return it up again. This sleeve is known as the "quill", and does not rotate. It is usually keyed by way of the gear rack on it to keep it from rotating. The spindle rotates within the quill. If you look at the spindle, on top of the quill, what is essentially a shaft extends upwards. This shaft runs vertically up thru the top bearing in the frame of the drill. The crown gear is located on this shaft (or spindle extension). There is usually a thrust washer between the bottom of the crown gear and the top surface of the drill press frame.

To remove the spindle from the machine, look at the top end of the quill and you should see a thrust bearing of some sort. There will also be a thrust bearing on the bottom end of the quill. Depending on the design of the drill press, these thrust bearings can be either thrust washers (bronze or phenolic and hardened steel), or, can be ball thrust bearings. The free play (if thrust washers used) or preload (if ball thrust bearings used) is set by adjusting nuts on the spindle. These are located above the top thrust bearing on the quill. Some drill press makers used a single thrust nut and had it semi-split with a pinch screw, and some used double adjusting nut, one to jam the other. I am unfamiliar with a Rockwell/Ryerson drill, but what I am describing is fairly common for this generic type of drill press.

I'd place a piece of wood on the table of the drill and let the quill down until it is bearing on the wood. Lock the feed lever in the 'up' position on it's 'hitching post' bar. This will hold the quill in position. Put a piece of flat steel bar or anything handy into the slot in the spindle (where you'd insert a drift key to knock out tapered shank drills or chuck arbors). Holding back on this piece of steel, loosen the adjusting nut(s) on the spindle just above the quill/top thrust bearing. Back these nuts off the threaded portion of the spindle. Make note of how the thrust bearings are stacked on the spindle. Again, different makers used different designs of thrust bearing. To make it more interesting people often retrofitted other types of thrust bearings to these old drills. I retrofitted INA ball thrust bearings to my old Cincinnati Bickford drill because the original thrust washers were pretty well worn and chewed up.

Once you have the nuts backed off the threads on the spindle, lower the table. The spindle should slide down inside the quill. When the spindle is well down in the quill, you may have to hold it up and swing the table aside. This should give you enough 'drop' to get the spindle out of the quill. The quill stays in place in the frame of the drill press. Who wants to have to fish up the chain inside the frame and deal with the counterweight ?

Do not be surprised if you find that the spindle journals turn in the quill itself, no other bearings or bushings (such as bronze bushings) used. Drill presses were designed for take primarily a thrust load. A radial (side) load was never intended to be something a drill press spindle bearings had to deal with. Spindles running in plain cast iron quill bores are common on these old machines. Not much to do if this is the case but inspect the journals on the spindle. Polish with fine emery cloth and oil if there is any scoring or ridging you can feel with your fingernail. Put 'er back together and run 'er as she is.

As for your motor. If critters have nested inside it, vacuum out the windings and inspect for any chewed-on insulation. If you suspect insulation damage on the windings, check the continuity thru the windings with a multi-meter and make sure there are no shorts to ground (to the frame of the motor due to critters chewing thru insulation). Clean the windings with electrical contact cleaner. Brake parts cleaner softens and damages insulating materials. Touch up any damaged insulation (old insulation such as varnish and taping may be cracked and brittle) with "Glyptal". This is an insulating varnish which has been around since Noah's chief engineer
used it on the bilge pump motor windings on the Ark.
 
Be aware that the thrust bearing at the bottom of the spindle is most probably loose ball bearings. No retainer or "cage'. They will fall out and roll away on the floor when you loosen the spindle nut. Personally I wouldn't bother to take it apart unless there is some apparent damage.
 
Apologies for my improper use of terminology. I am greatful for your responses. Thank you very much. Please correct me if I use the wrong phrasing or terminology. I'm learning here. And i will keep the ball bearings in mind if i do decide to disassemble the quill. That is very valuable to know. I am referring to the driven pulley and shaft assembly seen here at the bottom of the photo. It seems the shaft is being blocked from pulling up and out by the rear babbit bearing as the bearing extends into the back of the rear pulley. What I believe may be referred to as back gears( please correct me if I'm wrong) prevent the shaft from sliding forward. The back gear shaft housing does not unbolt as on some models but is cast into the frame. It appears the shaft for these gears is flanged ad will not push out forward of the drill.
 

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Apologies for my improper use of terminology. I am greatful for your responses. Thank you very much. Please correct me if I use the wrong phrasing or terminology. I'm learning here. And i will keep the ball bearings in mind if i do decide to disassemble the quill. That is very valuable to know. I am referring to the driven pulley and shaft assembly seen here at the bottom of the photo. It seems the shaft is being blocked from pulling up and out by the rear babbit bearing as the bearing extends into the back of the rear pulley. What I believe may be referred to as back gears( please correct me if I'm wrong) prevent the shaft from sliding forward. The back gear shaft housing does not unbolt as on some models but is cast into the frame. It appears the shaft for these gears is flanged ad will not push out forward of the drill.
Been there. I think you have to remove the crown gear cover and both top bearing caps and then lift the whole top shaft up and then you can fiddle and tilt to get it free. Or else you loosen the set screws on the big step pulley and slide it back to clear the bearing housing. You'll figure it out.
 
Metalmagpie beat to the punch. I have a saying: what one man designed & put together, another man can figure out and take apart. This saying has its exceptions:

If what one man built has parts set in a casting, or imbedded in concrete, or welded in place... then some demolition to get things apart is needed. Getting it back
together again is going to be a bit more work.

Usually, the guys who designed and built old machinery leave a pretty good trail to follow in terms of getting it apart and back together again. Years ago (and I still do this), we made sketches and marked various parts as we took machinery apart for repair or to move it. Nowadays, everyone simply whips out their phone and photos or videos things. I also believe in match-marking parts. Even if two bearing caps are of the same design and will interchange, the wear on the bearings and shaft journals has made each cap unique to its bearing. Similarly, even if a bearing cap can be turned end-for-end and still bolt onto the bearing lower half and hold the shaft journal, it may not work or run well. Journals 'bed into' babbitted bearings, so match marking bearing caps is a good idea.

As I take split bearings apart, I keep a micrometer at hand. I mike each shim as it comes out, and keep each shim stack separate. Even if I wind up doing some scraping on the babbitted bearings and polish the journals that run in them, the original shims give me a starting point.

Back gearing designs varied with the different makers of machine tools. A popular design used on lathes as well as some camelback drills was to mount the back gear shaft on an eccentric. Moving the back gear lever rotated the eccentric(s) and moved the back gears in or out of engagement. Often, the back gear 'cluster' was cast as one piece and bore thru. It turned on a stationary shaft, and it was this shaft which was moved by the eccentric (or eccentrics in designs with one at either end of the shaft). These eccentrics might be taper-pinned or keyed to the shaft. FInding the small end of the taper pins and match marking with prick punch marks can save a person a lot of time in trying to figure out how things go back together. Pictures on a phone only go so far with parts like smaller taper pins and the holes they go into.

My other rule is: never force anything. It is unlikely that the people who designed the machinery relied on driving parts together with heavy press fits. Press fits or shrink fitted parts were used in machine designs, but the greatest majority of parts went together without needing to be pressed or beat on. Some parts may be put together with close fits, such that a little persuasion from a dead blow hammer or a piece of soft brass and steel hammer is needed. If something does not want to come apart with a little persuasion, look for clues. There may be a taper pin filed off flush and the end covered with varnished old oil/grease.

I enjoy working on old machinery because it is basic and was meant to be 'maintainable' by the machinists or mechanics who would be using it. The old machine tools date to a time when mechanics were expected to figure things out for themselves more often than not. "Owner's manuals" and the like were the exception, not the rule for many pieces of machinery. Mechanics back in those times were used to dealing with things like babbitted bearings, knowing how to cut and fit shims to adjust clearances, knowing how to oil a piece of machinery, knowing how to make up flat belting and get it to run properly on the pulleys, and similar.

I remember years ago, a mechanic in my old crew at the powerplant was telling me how he learned to work on automobile ignition systems. He had some old beater of a car when he was a kid, and it was a bucket of bolts he had put together from junkyard parts. He could not get the engine to start and run. His uncle gave him a hand. My friend said he was looking for timing marks on the engine flywheel and dampener pulley, trying to put number 1 cylinder on top dead center compression. He had been crawling over and under the car, looking for the timing marks and bumping the engine over and getting nowhere. His uncle came out of the house and showed him how to go about it, backwoods style, quick and easy. The uncle said something to the effect of " you don't need timing marks." He took out the spark plugs, and identified number 1 cylinder. The uncle 'corked' the sparkplug tapped hole with his finger and turned the engine over until he felt pressure building against his finger in that sparkplug hole. He rolled the engine until the pressure fell off, then backed up the crankshaft and slowly did it again. This gave him 'high cam' on the distributor's point cam. The uncle then set the points, gapping them with a matchbook cover. The engine fired right up. Once it was running, the uncle simply rolled the distributor and tried gunning the engine. No manual, no timing light, no dwell meter, no feeler gauges. Get in the car, take it for a drive, see how it pulls a hill and tweak the timing and carburetor by the roadside based on how the engine performed. This is how oldtimers did things. My friend needed a car, and was not in a position to pay a mechanic let along buy a good running car. His uncle was probably not much better off, and was used to having to work with what was at hand. It is a story that makes a good point. While my friend and his uncle might not have tuned the engine in that old beater of a car so it ran like a watch, it ran well enough so that my friend had a car to get around with. That is pretty much what working on old machinery is often about. We have no manufacturer's specs on what to set bearing clearances to, and with worn bearings and journals, we set clearances to what works or feels right. We do not have any specs on how tight a flat belt ought to be to transmit power, or what torque value to use when pulling down the bolts on parts of old machine tools. We go by our sense and feel and what the machinery tells us when it is running. As long as we do not get 'rammy' with hammers and similar, and as long as we do not get ahead of ourselves and mix up things like shims, bearing caps, and the like, we will generally do fine.
 
Metalmagpie beat to the punch. I have a saying: what one man designed & put together, another man can figure out and take apart. This saying has its exceptions:

If what one man built has parts set in a casting, or imbedded in concrete, or welded in place... then some demolition to get things apart is needed. Getting it back
together again is going to be a bit more work.

Usually, the guys who designed and built old machinery leave a pretty good trail to follow in terms of getting it apart and back together again. Years ago (and I still do this), we made sketches and marked various parts as we took machinery apart for repair or to move it. Nowadays, everyone simply whips out their phone and photos or videos things. I also believe in match-marking parts. Even if two bearing caps are of the same design and will interchange, the wear on the bearings and shaft journals has made each cap unique to its bearing. Similarly, even if a bearing cap can be turned end-for-end and still bolt onto the bearing lower half and hold the shaft journal, it may not work or run well. Journals 'bed into' babbitted bearings, so match marking bearing caps is a good idea.

As I take split bearings apart, I keep a micrometer at hand. I mike each shim as it comes out, and keep each shim stack separate. Even if I wind up doing some scraping on the babbitted bearings and polish the journals that run in them, the original shims give me a starting point.

Back gearing designs varied with the different makers of machine tools. A popular design used on lathes as well as some camelback drills was to mount the back gear shaft on an eccentric. Moving the back gear lever rotated the eccentric(s) and moved the back gears in or out of engagement. Often, the back gear 'cluster' was cast as one piece and bore thru. It turned on a stationary shaft, and it was this shaft which was moved by the eccentric (or eccentrics in designs with one at either end of the shaft). These eccentrics might be taper-pinned or keyed to the shaft. FInding the small end of the taper pins and match marking with prick punch marks can save a person a lot of time in trying to figure out how things go back together. Pictures on a phone only go so far with parts like smaller taper pins and the holes they go into.

My other rule is: never force anything. It is unlikely that the people who designed the machinery relied on driving parts together with heavy press fits. Press fits or shrink fitted parts were used in machine designs, but the greatest majority of parts went together without needing to be pressed or beat on. Some parts may be put together with close fits, such that a little persuasion from a dead blow hammer or a piece of soft brass and steel hammer is needed. If something does not want to come apart with a little persuasion, look for clues. There may be a taper pin filed off flush and the end covered with varnished old oil/grease.

I enjoy working on old machinery because it is basic and was meant to be 'maintainable' by the machinists or mechanics who would be using it. The old machine tools date to a time when mechanics were expected to figure things out for themselves more often than not. "Owner's manuals" and the like were the exception, not the rule for many pieces of machinery. Mechanics back in those times were used to dealing with things like babbitted bearings, knowing how to cut and fit shims to adjust clearances, knowing how to oil a piece of machinery, knowing how to make up flat belting and get it to run properly on the pulleys, and similar.

I remember years ago, a mechanic in my old crew at the powerplant was telling me how he learned to work on automobile ignition systems. He had some old beater of a car when he was a kid, and it was a bucket of bolts he had put together from junkyard parts. He could not get the engine to start and run. His uncle gave him a hand. My friend said he was looking for timing marks on the engine flywheel and dampener pulley, trying to put number 1 cylinder on top dead center compression. He had been crawling over and under the car, looking for the timing marks and bumping the engine over and getting nowhere. His uncle came out of the house and showed him how to go about it, backwoods style, quick and easy. The uncle said something to the effect of " you don't need timing marks." He took out the spark plugs, and identified number 1 cylinder. The uncle 'corked' the sparkplug tapped hole with his finger and turned the engine over until he felt pressure building against his finger in that sparkplug hole. He rolled the engine until the pressure fell off, then backed up the crankshaft and slowly did it again. This gave him 'high cam' on the distributor's point cam. The uncle then set the points, gapping them with a matchbook cover. The engine fired right up. Once it was running, the uncle simply rolled the distributor and tried gunning the engine. No manual, no timing light, no dwell meter, no feeler gauges. Get in the car, take it for a drive, see how it pulls a hill and tweak the timing and carburetor by the roadside based on how the engine performed. This is how oldtimers did things. My friend needed a car, and was not in a position to pay a mechanic let along buy a good running car. His uncle was probably not much better off, and was used to having to work with what was at hand. It is a story that makes a good point. While my friend and his uncle might not have tuned the engine in that old beater of a car so it ran like a watch, it ran well enough so that my friend had a car to get around with. That is pretty much what working on old machinery is often about. We have no manufacturer's specs on what to set bearing clearances to, and with worn bearings and journals, we set clearances to what works or feels right. We do not have any specs on how tight a flat belt ought to be to transmit power, or what torque value to use when pulling down the bolts on parts of old machine tools. We go by our sense and feel and what the machinery tells us when it is running. As long as we do not get 'rammy' with hammers and similar, and as long as we do not get ahead of ourselves and mix up things like shims, bearing caps, and the like, we will generally do fine.
Mr. Michaels you sir are a wise man, among many others here. I apologize for being absent for a bit. I seem to have joined a not so exclusive club and contracted whatever filthy crud has been going around. I will spare the details but it wasn't pleasant.

I eventually figured out how to remove the main shaft. Once I the light bulb came on I realized how dim it was. As I suspected I was overthinking things. So for any others who may run into the issue and scratch their head on this I will help them out so they don't have to burn brain cells. When the back gear shaft and eccentric housing is part of the casting as opposed to bolted on and removable, as on some, the main shaft has to be lifted up in the front. It cannot be removed because the rear bearing casting extends inside the driven pulley on the shaft and gearing it too close, but can be lifted enough so the gears clear the back gears and the back gear shaft and eccentric can be slid out toward the rear of the drill. I hope this helps someone else who gets one of these and has to learn from others like I am having to do.
 

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Mr. Michaels you sir are a wise man, among many others here. I apologize for being absent for a bit. I seem to have joined a not so exclusive club and contracted whatever filthy crud has been going around. I will spare the details but it wasn't pleasant.

I eventually figured out how to remove the main shaft. Once I the light bulb came on I realized how dim it was. As I suspected I was overthinking things. So for any others who may run into the issue and scratch their head on this I will help them out so they don't have to burn brain cells. When the back gear shaft and eccentric housing is part of the casting as opposed to bolted on and removable, as on some, the main shaft has to be lifted up in the front. It cannot be removed because the rear bearing casting extends inside the driven pulley on the shaft and gearing it too close, but can be lifted enough so the gears clear the back gears and the back gear shaft and eccentric can be slid out toward the rear of the drill. I hope this helps someone else who gets one of these and has to learn from others like I am having to do.
Also I know this may not be the correct forum for this next question but because it does directly relate to the project I have an electrical question. Hopefully you guys won't beat me up too much. I apologize in advance if my lack of electrical knowledge offends anyone but I am a learn it and do it your self fella.I guess my first question is there any reason this station switch in photo "Q" would not work with a contactor as part of a holding circuit to start the motor? By the way disregard the notes under the switch on the cardboard. They are from a previous project. The switch is labeled 600v AC-DC. 2) Apparently the lamp does not have continuity with either the start or the stop so I would guess somehow power would be brought back to it once the contactor closes to indicate a closed circuit? Lastly I was considering using the contactor in photo "S" I was hoping someone could throw some opinions and guidance my way. If the general opinion is that these will work I would like to use them to run the 1.5 hp motor which I have wired for 240v. I have never wired a station control in a holding circuit so if anyone is able to hold my hand through setting it up I would buy them a beer if that could be done on line.

Below is a link to a test run on 240v. In the vid it sounds like a bearing is bad. I believe all of the bearings are good. I should note that I only oiled the bearings for a quick test run and had not re packed them. They are packed now. I also had not used a commutator stone to seat the new brushes so they were quite noisy. My refurbishing process was as follows: I started by checking continuity from the windings to the frame and armature. I also tested between the windings. I got OL. I then megged each winding wire to the cleaned frame and on my Klein ET600 got 4000 meg ohm. I megged between the windings and got 4000 meg ohm as well. As far as I can tell the insulation seems in tact and preforming well. If anyone has any other opinions please correct me if I'm wrong as I am learning from you all as I go through this. I took about a week and cleaned it up with a pick, tweezers, a soft paint brush and a combination of a vacuum (not contacting the winding wire) and about 30-40 psi compressed air. I next used a very soft brush and cleaned it with a non chlorinated brake cleaner which was recommended by someone with experience in this sort of thing on another web site and then with some warm water and dawn. I put a 100W light bulb centered in the laminated stack and dried it for several days. I then re tested as stated above to make sure insulation readings were ok and I re varnished with proper drenching of EL600. Back to the light bulb for several more days and another retesting as above. After drying again I received the same insulation test results as above. I then put on a thicker coating of MG 4228 as a precautionary measure. Once I got the wiring for 240 figured out I did a test run on 120v to make sure everything was copasetic before running on 240.

 

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I must apologize for a lack of sharing progress and giving updates. I thought the folks who helped me out with my many questions might want an update. Since I could not test things out without power I decided to get the motor running. I think i finished it up and it runs pretty good and seems to have plenty of power. Above is a link to it running the press. The second link is an amp test not under load but just running the press. Although rudimentary, I did put as much hand pressure as I could on the quill when running to see how the motor preformed. The unkind noise that makes ears bleed and souls depart is a combination of things, one of which is a clutch pulley. Please forgive me if I use an improper term there but I don't remember what it is actually called. I may remove this "clutch" pulley all together as I don't have the shifter. It seems rather loose and may need sleeved or babbitt, I haven't looked to see yet. The other end of the noise is in the operation of the press, because I still need to properly grease and oil. I lightly oiled it for a very short run to test the motor. I don't want to cause any undue wear or damage that can be avoided so only two several second runs for now. The motor sounds pretty quiet when running alone. As always I greatly appreciate the information and guidance I get here. Thank you all very much and I am honored to have so many folks offer their wisdom and experience. This is a fantastic project that really is a lot of fun. Please keep the suggestions and advice rolling. Now that I have power to it I found some play in the crown gear. I haven't measured it yet but I believe it is in the babbitt. Has anyone poured one of these (crown gear bearing)? If so I would be interested in your experience.
 

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Beautiful work on the motor! You will want to build a doghouse for it now to keep swarf and lube from getting on and more importantly INSIDE the end bells since it is a [very] open frame motor. Our drill presses are really a crappy machine to mount a "showpiece" motor. [That's why mine sports a older plain jane 2hp tefc century with "patina". lol
 
Beautiful work on the motor! You will want to build a doghouse for it now to keep swarf and lube from getting on and more importantly INSIDE the end bells since it is a [very] open frame motor. Our drill presses are really a crappy machine to mount a "showpiece" motor. [That's why mine sports a older plain jane 2hp tefc century with "patina". lol
Thanks man. I still have a paint touch up or 2 to do but that should be no problem to blend in. I have considered building a cover as a possibility. I am also considering mounting it somewhere else and using a small line shaft style set up for it as well. space is becoming limited in the basement shop. I missed out on the crescent band saw in the pic. My reminder didn't remind me until the auction was over. Question for the folks here. I have to guess I have about 10 thou play, give or take, between the crown gear and its babbitt bearing. There is other play in the quill as well but I think that can be remedied by new bearings and adjustment. What are thoughts on brass shimming the crown gear play. I have sheets of shim stock. I am trying to decide if I want to try to pour my first babbitt bearing ever on the crown gear before I move to paint and body work or if I should shim it and move on to paint and body. I apologize if this is an elementary question but I would rather not screw things up out of lack of experience. I'd prefer to ask a dumb question, get an educated answer and do things right the first time. I would not ever use this press in a production capacity. Just random large hole drilling that pops up from time to time.
 

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Todda323:

Thanks for keeping us updated as to your progress with your camelback drill press. Your mentions of '10 thou play between the crown gear and its babbitted bearing" has me wondering what sort of play you are referring to. Is it axial play (along the centerline of the spindle) or radial play (side-to-side) ?

In many of these old camelback drills, the bottom surface of the crown gear's hub rested against a thrust washer or thrust shim. This took up the axial play (or most of it). Some slight amount of axial play was required to set the 'gear lash' and 'depth of engagement' of the teeth on the crown gear and bevel pinion (on the horizontal top shaft).

Thrust washers or thrust shims were made of hard bearing bronze or 'Ryertek' (could not resist tossing that name in, since I believe your drill press has Ryerson's name on it). Ryertek = Micarta (Westinghouse trade name) = 'canvas reinforced phenolic' = 'Bakelite'. If your concern is the amount of axial (vertical) play in the crown gear, then your problem lies in the thrust washer or thrust shim. My advice is to clean both the bevel pinion and crown gear with solvent to get off any lubricant on the teeth. You can get fancy and do it by the book, using Prussian blue on some of the teeth of one of the bevel pinion . A thin film of Prussian Blue is applied to the flanks of some of the teeth on just the bevel pinion. Or, you can do it the backwoods way and use a thin film of grease. Turn the horizontal (top) shaft by hand thru one or two revolutions of the spindle. Examine the tooth contact on the teeth of the crown gear. The teeth have to contact each other on what is known as the 'pitch point' and should have a good contact area on the tooth flanks. As gear teeth mesh and transmit power, the teeth are in a kind of rolling motion as they slide against each other.

The contact pattern should be uniform, and extend from the pitch point towards the crests of the teeth. If the thrust shim is too worn, the bevel pinion's teeth are contacting the crown gears teeth too high up on them. This results in increased gear lash (play between the meshing teeth), and contacting at the wrong points will result in accelerated tooth wear and noise when running. On an old camelback drill used in a home shop, this matter of gear lash and depth of tooth engagement is likely of little to no importance given the use the old drill will be seeing.

If you want to restore the correct gear lash and tooth contact, a thrust washer could be fitted between the bottom of the crown gear's hub and the top of the upper spindle bearing housing. I'd raise the crown gear by packing temporary shim stock under it until the gear lash and contact were about where I wanted them to be. Again, backwoods methods: cut some "C" shims from sheet metal such as the sides of olive oil tins, roofing flashing, or whatever other sheet metal you have at hand. A "C" shim has a slot from its edge into the hole for the shaft. As a temporary shim you can then slide them on or off the spindle without taking everything apart.
You cut and insert C shims until you have the gear lash on the tight side. Pull the C shims out and mike them. Make up a single thrust shim out of hard bearing bronze or Ryertek. This shim is the permanent one, so will be a 'washer' shape. Put it in place on the drill and assemble the top shaft. Roll the drill with the top shaft, seeing a couple of turns of the spindle. Check tooth contact pattern and gear lash. On old and somewhat worn gearing of this type, running at lower speeds, a gear lash of maybe 0.005"-0.010" would be OK. You can fine-adjust the thrust shim by rubbing it on a sheet of emery cloth laid on a flat surface (like the table of a circular saw, milling machine, or even the drill itself). If you use Ryertek for the shim, you can rub it to thickness on fine "flint paper' (woodworking sandpaper).

The top babbitted bearing which the spindle runs in is a whole other matter. This is a 'poured in place' bearing. It has to be poured so that it establishes the spindle in alignment with the quill. It was line-bored when the drill press was made. Fortunately, in normal operation, this bearing sees low radial (side) loads, just some radial loading from the gearing. Given proper lubrication, and lack of abuse (i.e.- no using the drill to run milling cutters or similar side loads) this bearing should last a few lifetimes.

I am guessing that the top of this babbitted bearing stood proud above the cast iron mainframe. This formed the original thrust collar that the crown gear hub rode against. If it wore down, go with a thrust shim as noted above. I'd drill a couple of small holes thru the face of the thrust shim (maybe 3/32" diameter). These will let oil find its way to the lower surface of the thrust shim/top of babbitt. Check the web (the area between the teeth and the shaft bore) on the crown gear for a lubrication hole. This hole is very important as it is the only means of lubing the thrust surfaces under the crown gear. It is often overlooked by people who do not know of its existence and are not capable of thinking 'hey... how's the thrust face under that gear gonna get lubed ?'. In time, this lube hole gets clogged with open gear lube or grease from the gear teeth, and is often invisible. Lubing a camelback drill, at least for me, means getting on a short stepladder to access this lube hole. I make sure to spritz plenty of oil into the oil hole in the web of the crown gear before starting my camelback drills. I stick the nozzle on a pump oilcan into these drillings and pump the oil in until I see it run out of the thrust shims and thrust surfaces.

If the top babbitted bearing in the mainframe is worn, this is usually a 'poured in place' bearing that is line bored when the drill was built. There is no 'split' to it, hence no adjustment for wear. If it gets too sloppy, it has to be repoured. It can be done, but it means establishing the spindle centered and true with the quill. If the quill bored bearings (usually plain cast iron in these old drills) are worn, then the job gets more interesting. Temporary fixturing with adjustable screws (similar to lathe steady rests, also known as 'catheads') and the use of dial indicators would be how I'd establish spindle position in the upper part of the mainframe. A mold in the form of a piece of pipe to allow pouring the raised thrust collar babbitt would be used. No line boring. I'd take my chances on the as-poured bore being good enough for use. I'd also use the spindle as my mandrel for the babbitting, assuming it was not scored or worn so it were 'necked down'. The keyway in the spindle would have to be filled temporarily in the area being babbitted. I'd soft-solder in a shaft key and turn it flush in a lathe. I use "Jet flux" and the newer lead-free plumbing solder (silver content), and a 'B' tank torch to soft solder steel and iron parts. The area of the spindle passing thru the babbitting area has to be a smooth, continuous shaft if it is to function as a mandrel for the babbitting. Hence, the keyway needs to be filled and flush to make that portion of the spindle into a 'round shaft'. After babbitting, melt out the soft solder and re-open the keyway in the spindle. My use of the spindle as mandrel is to be sure to establish centerline up thru the top bearing. A 'Cathead' set above the top bearing (with room for pouring the babbitt) would allow the spindle to be steadied and adjusted to being square with the table. A temporary arm and dial indicator in a drill chuck will let you verify the spindle is squared to the table. There is bound to be wear in the quill bearings and in the fit of the quill in the mainframe. If you relied solely on the spindle bearings in the quill to establish alignment with the top babbitted bearing, you could wind up with a spindle out of square to the table of the drill, or a bound set of bearings when you powered things up.
 
Bobby, I should move to FL. If it wasn't so ungodly hot there I would consider it. Years ago when I was in the Navy we ported in Hollywood near Burt and Jacks in August. Being a Virginia boy I never felt hot like that. I'm pretty sure something inside me melted because I haven't been right since. It got worse when we went to St. Thomas. It was so hot even the guys from Fl. stayed inside. I think I was in around $200 for this press, which was a little higher than I wanted to be but they aren't very common in my neck of the woods. I had to travel about 2 hours for it. I found a cleaned up Silver camelback, which was quite nice, for around $500 which was out of my price range. I I liked the fact that the one i ended up with had a 1ph motor. Around here usually 3ph is found with this sort of thing. The Crescent saw I referenced above went for $310 which was a steal around here. That is a rarity because usually the good, old, stuff goes for just above absolute top dollar and folks aren't as willing to negotiate as they used to be.

Joe, there was a thrust washer under the crown gear. Steel I think. It would appear that the babbitt sits flush with the top of the upper frame which holds the crown gear. I will have to check the gear mating with some blue as you described to see if that helps any. One thing I did notice is at one point there will be play between the crown gear and it's babbitt bearing. If I turn the quill about 90 degrees the play lessens and there is not as much. I will have to try this without the quill in the crown gear. I suspect the housing which holds the quill and down feed arms may have been ill adjusted but I will have to investigate. Right now I have everything torn down for cleaning and sand blasting.
 
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Todda323:

In reading your latest post, your reference to "ill adjusted" has me wondering about the design features of your drill. I have a Cinncinnati-Bickford Camelback drill. In looking at your youtube clips, I see some design similarities. Namely, the feed lever and "T" type feed handle are apparently made to the same design/same castings as my C-B drill. Knowing something of Ryerson's mode of business, it is entirely possible your drill was made for Ryerson by Cinncinnati-Bickford. Vary a few design features, change the letters on the foundry pattern for the mainframe to have Ryerson's name on it and Ryerson has a drill press for their catalog.

Regarding the reference to the "ill adjusted" housing: This is a split housing that adjusts the amount of side-play between the quill and the mainframe of the drill. The bolts on the housing can be snugged (assuming some previous owner has not taken up all the remaining adjustment). As you snug up on these bolts, try moving the quill up and down using the shorter "T" handle on the left side of the drill. This will provide the least leverage. The quill should move freely, but at the same time, there should be a minimum of side-play between it and the mainframe. I kind of doubt that the 'ill adjustment" you speak of is what is causing the crown gear to be sitting out of parallel with the top of the babbitting/cast iron mainframe. The top of the mainframe, as well as the top surface of the babbitt were likely faced off during the line boring of the upper spindle bearing and bore for the quill. This machining would create a top surface on the mainframe/babbit that was square to the vertical centerline of the spindle. If you are seeing an angled surface between the bottom of the crown gear and the top of the mainframe/babbitt, I would attribute it to wear that happened in service. You mention a (possible) steel thrust shim under the crown gear. To quote Shakespeare (I think): "Therein lies the rub". That steel thrust shim is most likely NOT original to the drill. As I wrote, a Ryertek or Micarta thrust shim was normally used. As old as the drill is, this Ryertek thrust shim may have worn to the point that gear lash was excessive and gear tooth contact was equally bad. Someone in the shop where the drill was in use probably made a new thrust shim out of whatever was at hand. Steel being the most common material, and maybe needing to use the drill, they made a steel thrust shim. Now we think of how someone who was either in a hurry, or not much of a machinist, made that thrust shim. They likely chucked a hunk of round bar in a lathe and bored it and turned it to the innner and outer diameters for the thrust shim. Cut it off at a heavier thickness, and tried it on the drill. Probably played the old "cut and try" game, put the shim in place on the drill and see what the gear lash and contact were like. If things felt too tight, take the shim to the lathe and face a little off it. Imagine trying to chuck a relatively thin washer in a lathe chuck. Unless a person uses some parallels and checks the face runout of the washer, the odds are almost a sure bet that the faces of the washer will not be parallel. After a few cut-and-try iterations, the original face of the new washer was probably faced off as was the back face, and the thrust shim's faces wind up far from parallel and maybe with some waviness to them. This thrust shim then got put into the drill and run with. It wore the top surface of the bearing housing/babbitt to some angle out of square with the spindle.

Take a close look at that top surface of the babbitt and the cast iron mainframe that is the bearing shell. You may see concentric (circular) scoring or grooving where the steel thrust shim rubbed hard on the babbitt and cast iron of the bearing housing or shell (which is integral with the main frame). Working on old machinery sometimes puts us into something of a 'detective mode', kind of like Sherlock Holmes with a magnifying glass, looking for small, almost invisible clues.

Chances are quite good that if you made a bronze thrust shim and ran it on that surface, it would be fine for anything you want to do with that drill. If you want to be a bit fancier and more of a real mechanic (an oldtime term which included machinists), you could check that surface for square to the spindle with a dial indicator.
Clamp an arm of some sort (could be made of scrap steel) to the spindle with the crown gear removed. Tighten the cap bolts on the housing holding the quill to take up as much side play as you can. The idea is to have the quill as solidly in the mainframe as possible for this test. Position the dial indicator so its tip rides against the top of the cast iron or babbitt where the thrust shim was seated. Roll the spindle thru 360 degrees and make a sketch of the readings on the indicator. I'd use a 1" travel dial indicator and set it up so the indicator was at about mid-range, then zero the indicator. Mark your starting point and take readings every 90 degrees. You will then see which way the top surface is worn out of square with the spindle.

If you want to address this problem, have plenty of patience and be in good physical shape. Get a coarse bastard cut file. Get a stepladder or make a platform to stand on so you can stand safely and comfortably to file off the top surface of the housing and babbitt. Using your indicator readings, file down the high area. Check with the dial indicator as you go along filing. A long coarse bastard cut file Is what I'd use to get close. You could use an angle grinder with fine abrasive discs, but it is more likely to produce a wavy surface. To rough down to flatness, If we are talking about maybe taking off 0.010"-0.015" (and this is a WAG, a wild-ass-guess on my part), some light touching with the angle grinder on the high area followed by filing is how I'd go about it. Remove the spindle for this grinding and filing of the top surface as you need to work completely across it, and you do not want to gouge the spindle. Replace the spindle for dial indicator checks. When your indicator shows you are close with the coarse filing, switch to a second cut file. Finish by drawfiling with a fine or smooth cut file. You will not get a perfectly flat surface, but you will have a surface that is squared to the spindle. At that point, I'd take a three-corner scraper or deburring tool and put a nice chamfer on the top edge of the babbitted bearing. Reassemble the drill and check how much of a thrust shim is required. I'd get a chunk of 660 bearing bronze, which is a softer leaded bearing bronze. It is sometimes available as a "cored round". No sense paying $$$ for a chunk of bronze to turn a major portion of it into chips. I've gotten some good buys on chunks of bronze on eBay.

If you make a new thrust shim and run it on that out-of-square surface, the thrust shim will wear unevenly and gear lash and engagement will open up sooner rather than later. When you make the new thrust shim, use a micrometer to check both faces for parallel. Setting up to machine a thin washer-like piece of work in a lathe can be tricky.
 
I decide to take the quill apart today and clean it up. Maybe size bearings to get new ones. When I disassembled it I found there are no bearings or races. Interesting. Any play in the quill may not get rectified. Would this design indicate an older date range?
 

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Todda323:

In earlier posts that I wrote as responses to this thread, I noted that many of these camelback drills never had any separate bearings in the quill. As I had noted, I've seen the customary design being to bore the quill to take the spindle journals, no bronze bushings, no babbitting, and certainly no ball or needle bearings. Cast iron, which is what the quill is made of, is an excellent bearing material. South Bend made tens of thousands of lathes using nothing more than bored fits in the cast iron headstocks for the spindle bearings. With proper running speeds, proper lubrication and loadings within design limits, a cast iron bearing will give excellent service.

Drill press spindle bearings are not designed to take much of a radial (side) load. Unfortunately, many people think otherwise and mis-use or abuse drill presses by using them to run end mill cutters, or other applications which put a significant radial load on the spindle bearings. Another cause of radial loads on spindle bearings is the use of larger diameter bent drills. People in more modern times are lazy and ignorant about a lot of shop work. The prevailing thinking is a drill press is something anyone can operate. At the same time, it is cheaper to have an assortment of turned-shank (aka "Silver and Deming style) drills on hand. These more often than not have bent shanks from people misusing them or using them in hand-held portable drills. Get a drill with a real dogleg in its shank and push it into work clamped to the table and the result is the drill wants to put the work into an orbit. If the work is clamped solidly, the result is a sideload in the spindle bearings. In time, this sideload also loosens up the fit of the quill in the mainframe. In the case of a camelback drill with plain cast iron spindle bearings, if people failed to oil the spindle bearings before each use (during prolonged use), this is a very likely cause of the bearing wear you are seeing. Now we add the age of the drill, likely well over 100 years. Who knows how many owners and how many people have used or abused it. Just knowing there are oil holes at the top and lower portion of the quill is something that many people do not know. They may have had the mindset of: "I'm only gonna drill a couple of holes", or simply thought you chucked a drill and threw the switch (assuming the drill was converted to electric motor drive) and drilled holes.

I've seen badly worn drill presses where not only the spindle bearings were loose, but the quill was way loose in the bored fit in the mainframe. I referred to the spindles of these drills as 'doing the hula'.

If you are up for it, your drill could be put to rights. First off, you would need to inspect the spindle journals and mike them to see if they are still round and whether there is wear creating any taper in them. Or, are the journals deeply scored and ridged ? Either way, miking the spindle journals and the smaller diameter of the spindle between the journals will tell if there is enough meat there to take a skim cut on the journals and turn them slightly undersized.

The quill can be setup in a lathe's 4 jaw chuck and indicated to get it running true about its centerline. The existing bored bearing fits in the quill would then be bored out to receive bronze sleeve bearings (bushings). I'd bore the quill for a shrink fit with the bushings rather than pressing them into the quill. shrink the bushings (chill them in dry ice/alcohol or liquid nitrogen) & heat the quill to maybe 200-300 degrees F. Some allowance is made for the compression of the bushings and resulting reduction of the bore in the bushings. Once the bushings and quill had returned to room temperature, I'd check the bore with at least telescoping (snap) gauges and a mike, or a bore gauge. Depending on the wall thickness of the bushing (which may be limited by how thick the wall of the quill is), you may find the bushing bore tightened up from the crushing action of the shrink fit. Some cleanup by re-chucking in the lathe and kissing off a few thousandths of an inch from the new bushing bores will set the correct running clearance.

Your mention of things being a bit cockeyed up at the crown gear may also have been a contributing factor to the spindle bearing wear in the quill. The spindle is relatively long, so an excellent 'moment arm' or lever. Put some sideload on it up at the top end by way of a thrust shim that is anything but parallel, add wear, and there is a force applied up at the top area of the spindle. Force x distance = moment, The spindle bearings in the quill have to resist this moment, but do not have much surface area or length to do it with.

No matter how the wear occurred, you can do two things:
]-decide this an old camelback drill, slow turning and not a high speed drill nor tool room machine. As such, drills will find their own centers if you give them a good punch mark or pilot drill with a smaller drill. You can then run larger drills at low speeds in the camelback drill and they will follow the center and produce something like a round hole. Drills are never really relied upon to produce precise round holes in machine work. Drilled holes are OK for putting bolts thru or similar, but are never considered as particularly precise or truly round in close tolerance machine work. Camelback drills were used in blacksmith shops, structural steel shops and the like aside from machine shops. A guy pushing a 1" drill thru a chunk of angle iron for a structural steel job was not going for the kind of precision needed in a machine shop. A worn camelback drill would serve well for years in that application.

-decide you want to go the whole hog and restore the spindle journals and bore/bush the quill. This is the "Cadillac repair".

At the end of the day, even if you had done the Cadillac repair of boring and bushing the quill and turning the spindle journals, you still have a camelback drill. It is not ever going to be a precise machine tool. Maybe when it was new and tight, it could have run a boring head (as was done in automotive engine rebuild shops), but this sort of application was the exception, not the rule. Most camelback drills wound up running larger diameter twist drills, pushing them thru steel in shops where working to anything closer than 1/16th of an inch was considered real close work.
 
Could it be possible that that bronze thrust washer was a shop made replacement for a thrust ball bearing? Mine and every picture I've seen of them have a bearing there [loose balls] and as such it would be very easy for some knob to allow it to get stupid loose [or trying to disassemble it] and loose all of the balls.
 








 
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