Can you recommend a metal finishing machine?

[DRobs86]

I am looking to invest in a metal finishing machine. We have a tumbler and multiple sanders, but I feel that we are spending more time than we need to.

We have a fiber laser, waterjet, and mills. Lathe too, but I don't think a finishing machine will help us. Thicknesses range from 20 gauge to 2" thick. Sizes range from 2"x2" to 50"x30".

Ideally, I want someone to be able to put a milled, waterjet, or fiber lasered part in one side of the finishing machine and spit out a ready to use or ready to powder coat on the other side.

What should I buy? What should I expect to spend for this?

 

[IninefingersI]

Have you looked at Timesavers?

 

[Whetstone]

I’m sorry, but I think what you are asking for does not exist. There are timesavers and debuting machines for flat goods but not much for 3D objects. I wonder if just a sand blaster conveyor would work.


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[IninefingersI]

I’m sorry, but I think what you are asking for does not exist. There are timesavers and debuting machines for flat goods but not much for 3D objects. I wonder if just a sand blaster conveyor would work.

True enough. There is no magic machine that lets you drop anything you want in the front end and it gives birth to a pristine part out the back.

Alternatively, I finally got tired of yelling at my guys for deburring parts when their green light was flashing quite awhile back. For anything more involved than dragging a burr whip across a couple edges, I started adding deburring passes to the programs. Now, the majority of our parts come out of the machine, get a blast of air, and go into a box, and off to finish.

1/8" spot drill, F80. S12000 running a .005 chamfer makes a really nice looking part and, when the operators don't have to mess with them, the minute or so cycle time increase is pretty much a wash.

 

[TKassoc]

There are quite a few really complicated flat sheet machines that do what you're looking for like Lissmac Optimal surface grinding and unique high-end finishing Weber Metal Finishing Machines etc. All of them use multiple heads and expensive/elaborate abrasives to get smooth rounded edges. Super cool and effective in the right application but when you see one turn $500+ worth of woven abrasive brushes into dust per shift a bunch of guys with cheap DA sanders starts to look much more appealing.

 

[Mcgyver]

look into a wheelabrator or blastpro shot blast system. Can be anything from a big cabinet to an automatic conveyor type

 

[William Payne]

A lot of time gets wasted deburing parts to keep someone busy while a machine is running that could be done finished and ready to go by the machine. I will always be a proponent of deburing with the machine. It also gives you the same thing each time.

 

[garyhlucas]

Haven't worked with high end CAM. Do any of the CAM packages support or automate deburring?

 

[CarbideBob]

look into a wheelabrator or blastpro shot blast system. Can be anything from a big cabinet to an automatic conveyor type

These can be sort of brutal to fine features.
Learned long ago to put in big caps "DO NOT BLAST OR TUMBLE" on the heat treat PO for my toolholders.
Bob

 

[DDoug]

look into a wheelabrator or blastpro shot blast system. Can be anything from a big cabinet to an automatic conveyor type

These can be sort of brutal to fine features.
Learned long ago to put in big caps "DO NOT BLAST OR TUMBLE" on the heat treat PO for my toolholders.
Bob

Yabutt, running 1/16" steel shot, all the burrs WILL be removed....

 

[Ries]

The OP mentinoned laser, waterjet, and milling. Programming in deburring will work with one of those 3.
not an option with the other two.
Lasers and plasma leave a HAZ that is usually hard- making them even harder to debur.
Waterjet finish really depends on speed and quality of machine- spend that extra quarter million when you buy it, and you get the head that compensates for thickness and curves, and minimizes draft.
But most shops run basic machines at the highest speed they can get away with, which means burrs and draft and roughly textured edges.

There are machines made for finishing the top and bottom flat sides of cut sheet- but the ones that actually work are very expensive to buy, and expensive to run- they are like a timesavers belt sander, but with additional heads rotary abrasive brushes. There are several different types of brushes and rollers that work after the grinding belts. The best ones are made in Germany. Very expensive.
Metal Finishing Machines WEBER MKS

Thats why there are still hand deburring shops out there. There are probably still a half dozen shops in LA that do this, a dozen guys running air tools with abrasives or carbide bits on em, all day long. I used to use a shop in Gardena like this to debur gray iron castings- there was no better, or cheaper, way to do it, as these were odd shapes that wouldnt fit in any machine, and a wheelabrator would have destroyed them.

Sometimes there are fancy machines that will solve a problem. But sometimes, hand eye coordination, patience, and time, are the only way to do a job. Our corporate overlords hate it when that happens.

 

[Mcgyver]

These can be sort of brutal to fine features.
Learned long ago to put in big caps "DO NOT BLAST OR TUMBLE" on the heat treat PO for my toolholders.
Bob

agreed.

He mentioned a few pieces of fabrication equipment and coating afterward so it seemed less like precision machined parts There was no mention of burrs; the Q was metal finishing so its ready for coating. If you are powder coating, and you want a machine that finishes such that's its ready for powder coating, its potentially t the machine for the job. There's sandblasting as well, but its less a 'machine' than some of the conveyor shot blast systems. Its also not one size fits all, different shot gives a different profile.

Of course we're all just guessing....It wasn't a great question, we're not even told the material, and there's been no follow up.... but it seemed a more likely a fabricated part rather than a precision machined part.

OP, Give specifics....what are you trying to finish exactly, what is the finishing to accomplish? Scale removal, burr removal?. Describe the part etc, farm wagon weldments? satellite parts?

 

[DDoug]

agreed.

He mentioned a few pieces of fabrication equipment and coating afterward so it seemed less like precision machined parts There was no mention of burrs; the Q was metal finishing so its ready for coating. If you are powder coating, and you want a machine that finishes such that's its ready for powder coating, its potentially t the machine for the job. There's sandblasting as well, but its less a 'machine' than some of the conveyor shot blast systems. Its also not one size fits all, different shot gives a different profile.

Of course we're all just guessing....It wasn't a great question, we're not even told the material, and there's been no follow up.... but it seemed a more likely a fabricated part rather than a precision machined part.

OP, Give specifics....what are you trying to finish exactly, what is the finishing to accomplish? Scale removal, burr removal?. Describe the part etc, farm wagon weldments? satellite parts?

I read the OP as everything the shop makes, he wants to run thru one
"Does it all" machine.
Which ain't gonna happen.

 

[Mcgyver]

I read the OP as everything the shop makes, he wants to run thru one
"Does it all" machine.
Which ain't gonna happen.

I'm my shop's does it all finishing machine. I'm expensive, miss lots of crap, frequently break down, am very high maintenance, difficult to operate, produces all manner of disturbing creaks and groans and can be both finicky and temperamental to keep running. Parts are not available and while on some days its awesome, on many others I'm inclined to grab the bloody file and do it myself.

Despite the long list of negatives I'm the only does it all machine I could find

 

[IninefingersI]

Haven't worked with high end CAM. Do any of the CAM packages support or automate deburring?

It is just simple contour chamfers. You've got to truncate your toolpaths to avoid collisions. I don't know of any package that really automates it.

I like to use an 1/8" spot drill. It is part of our standard tool load and it saves me having to use a tool pot for a dedicated deburring tool.

One of the things I really like about machine deburring is deburring the back side of 1st op features makes it really easy to confirm that your 2nd op is dialed in.

 

[Comatose]

You could always put in a big tank and electropolish everything...

 

[gregormarwick]

It is just simple contour chamfers. You've got to truncate your toolpaths to avoid collisions. I don't know of any package that really automates it.

It's a fairly common feature these days I think.

I use Featurecam and it has had feature recognition for edge chamfering for years, but it's definitely not the only one.

 

[IninefingersI]

It's a fairly common feature these days I think.

I use Featurecam and it has had feature recognition for edge chamfering for years, but it's definitely not the only one.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time I did something the hard way because I didn't know any better.

 

[esearfoss]

So I know it has been a little while since this thread was discussed, but I'm going to raise if from the dead. At our shop, we have 2 water jets (Flow and Omax), and we have a Mazak laser. With the addition of the laser, we are able to crank out flat pattern parts a lot faster, which raises the question, do we need a deburring machine? We are currently interested in a Lissmac but have not made any final decisions. Most of out parts, similar to the OP are anywhere from 2x2" to 36 x72" (occasionally larger) with a material thickness any where from .02" to .375". The majority of out material is steel, AL, SS, and Inconel, but we run the gamut on materials from copper to hastelloy . While we do run larger parts and thicker, on the occasion that we do we can hand finish. Do any of you have experience with running a deburr machine in your shop. I noticed that it was mentioned that they are expensive to run. What are the typical costs to run this machine and change out abrasives (also availability of abrasives).

 

[Ries]

I havent run a machine like a lissmac, but they do look like the Bees Knees. I highly doubt they will be cheap to run, though.
Abrasives are a consumable.
They get used up.
I have been buying all my abrasives from Klingspor since the early 90s, and while they are more expensive than the brand of the month on ebay, I have found it well worth it.
Before buying a Lissmac, I would get the abrasive sizes and recommended grits, and get some bids. Obviously, you are not going to be ordering them from Germany direct, so you need to find US stocking manufacturers or distributors. My guess is Klingspor would have em, or could make em, certainly belts, but dunno about proprietary abrasive brushes.
Also, the best place to find actual consumable life is from other owners of the same machine- ask Lissmac to refer you to some customers who actually have similar models.