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Can't rs232 download Params/progs, can send them, several cables tried, but with error on sending long running moves, meldas 310m Mitsubishi

madko

Plastic
Joined
Apr 28, 2023
I h1000008109.pngave a leadwell tdc-450 that I can send programs to with the included diy cable the last owner made – db25 to db9 to USB. I can't download programs from the machine. On long running moves like tool change, sending programs gives p460 tape I/o error. I have tried the usual remedies for delay and the like for that error, but I am shelving it because I need to download parameters and the ladder from the machine.


I have wired a simple 3 wire db25 to db9 cable as shown in the rs232 doc from Mitsubishi, then connected that to a null modem USB adapter. Jumpered appropriate pins, also tried jumpering only on machine side I tried a regular USB adapter as well. I tried witching rx and tx. I tried dragging a physical old computer with a real serial port out, same thing. I have tried using an unmodified null modem cable straight to a desktop. I have tried a straight through cable.


All of these have resulted in nothing coming in when trying to download anything with procomm 4.8 or NCLink. The machine shows data out execution, but nothing changes at the PC end.


Where should I go from here? I'm just lost on the next sane steps to check off the list. I see several different wirings when I search for meldas 300 online.


Thoughts? Thanks!
 
Most of the time, the CNC has a control setting that is "odd" compared to the PC.
With that said, make sure that all the wired connections in the machine's cabinet and pendant are tight.
Once, when trying to feed data on a lathe, I opened the pendant to find that the communications cable was chewed thru by rodents.
 
Most of the time, the CNC has a control setting that is "odd" compared to the PC.
With that said, make sure that all the wired connections in the machine's cabinet and pendant are tight.
Once, when trying to feed data on a lathe, I opened the pendant to find that the communications cable was chewed thru by rodents.
Thanks!

Yeah, I have the machine set to 8 data, PC to 7.

Called Mitsubishi they said a regular null modem cable should work.



Thanks for the reminder on wiring. I saw that DCd doesn't seem to be connected to the db25, but don't know if that's an issue. I think there are maybe two wires on the cable side not wired.

But I think most things should be there (rx/tx), maybe I have to bust out the multimeter and send or receive to try to see some movement on that wire?

1000008120.jpg1000008119.jpg1000008115.png1000008116.png
 
The most common on the CNC side ( 25pin ) is
2 Send data
3 Recv data
4 & 5 are tied together
6, 8 & 20 are tied together
7 is ground

In this manner only 2, 3, & 7 hook up to the laptop.

Control codes are used ( DC1 - DC4 ) or X-on X-off if you are American.
 
The most common on the CNC side ( 25pin ) is
2 Send data
3 Recv data
4 & 5 are tied together
6, 8 & 20 are tied together
7 is ground

In this manner only 2, 3, & 7 hook up to the laptop.

Control codes are used ( DC1 - DC4 ) or X-on X-off if you are American.
Yeah, I had tried that before using a db25 to screw terminal adapter, but didn't realize pin 8 was not connected to anything cable wise behind the cnc panel.

Looks like I may need to figure out which of the wires is pin 8 and jumper it on the cnc side as well.
 
maybe I have to bust out the multimeter and send or receive to try to see some movement on that wire?

There's serial port testers out there that are kind of like the ethernet cable testers - a bunch of led's on the different lines, so you can see what's going on electrically. They aren't very expensive.

There's also software that does the same thing, and lets you try different settings more easily.

One quick thing - make sure the ground shield is only connected at one end, not both. If there is any difference in potential between the two ends, that'll become a conductor instead of a shield and can mess with the data. Since you say it drops out, not "doesn't work" that's a possibility.
 
There's serial port testers out there that are kind of like the ethernet cable testers - a bunch of led's on the different lines, so you can see what's going on electrically. They aren't very expensive.

There's also software that does the same thing, and lets you try different settings more easily.

One quick thing - make sure the ground shield is only connected at one end, not both. If there is any difference in potential between the two ends, that'll become a conductor instead of a shield and can mess with the data. Since you say it drops out, not "doesn't work" that's a possibility.
Thanks! Great suggestions.

It more doesn't work in one direction, which was odd to Mitsubishi since they mentioned it's usually easier to download from the NC than to send programs.

I did remove the shield connection a few days ago -- it's been a lotta time troubleshooting so far. Visual led serial tester is a good idea If I keep having issues.

I did try a "raw" serial software monitor where I could flip through a ton of settings. I was able to see communication start requests and the PC changing settings, but never any data, even garbled, coming out when sending programs from the cnc.

I am going to try to take out the extension cable that wires up the panel db25 connector. I am going to try plugging in the null modem cable directly to the NC in the back after removing that connector. I can also try the simple 3 wire again to that parallel port directly to the NC.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, it's really helpful even if I've already tried it. Trying to go through any sane possibilities to make sure I've not missed a potential place of figuring something out.
 
DNC4U is by far the easiest software to get working on problem machines. Have you messed with the cache size in windows? I just had to make mine smaller yesterday because in between rapid moves the software was sending too much code. Even if the software stops sending if the cache is too large it can be enough to alarm out the Cnc.
 
DNC4U is by far the easiest software to get working on problem machines. Have you messed with the cache size in windows? I just had to make mine smaller yesterday because in between rapid moves the software was sending too much code. Even if the software stops sending if the cache is too large it can be enough to alarm out the Cnc.
Sweet, I'll download it.

Yeah, for the p460 error I had seen stuff like that for different meldas controls when searching, and a few references for the 300m elsewhere https://www.cnczone.com/forums/dnc-problems-and-solutions/14104-meldas-50m-error-p460.html

Seemed like maybe the 300 also sends a signal that the pc might sometimetines ignore depending on settings or dnc software. There's also a p460 specific advisory to change a delay in procomm from Mitsubishi. Also because it happens immediately with a long toolchanges (they take like 5-10s+ maybe) and the PC keeps sending lines and it can be simulated by settinf the cnc to single block mode, I think the software setup is ignoring some handshake or maybe the not connected pin 8 DCD to the NC is making the dnc software miss something. It all uploads in one go. Seemed like these were potential points, some of which you mention:

- change buffer size for serial port
- make sure the PC is waiting if I put the machine in single block mode, instead of sending more lines or timing out
- change line delay
- change timeout on dnc (?) If it's waiting for the ok to go again
 

Attachments

  • M300 P460 Error During Tape Running Mode Technical Bullet.pdf
    572.2 KB · Views: 10
I dont think you have problem with cable. What are your settings on NC and PC sides? I think you have some mismatch, had similar issue with my Yasnac on Matsuura
 
I have never had much luck with rx/tx, always use hardware handshake if I can. Seems to be a bunch more reliable, especially over long distances.
This ^ is what I would advise.
Here is the cable configuration I use for Meldas controls. Uses hardware handshaking as I have found that more reliable than XON/XOFF for drip feeding.

9 pin (PC) 25 pin (CNC port )
2 -----------------------2
3 -----------------------3
4 -----------------------6-8
5 -----------------------7
6 -----------------------20
7 -----------------------5
8 -----------------------4
Shield soldered to shell of 25 pin connector only.

I've drip fed up to 4 meg programs using DNC4U and hardware handshaking with zero errors.
 
This ^ is what I would advise.
Here is the cable configuration I use for Meldas controls. Uses hardware handshaking as I have found that more reliable than XON/XOFF for drip feeding.

9 pin (PC) 25 pin (CNC port )
2 -----------------------2
3 -----------------------3
4 -----------------------6-8
5 -----------------------7
6 -----------------------20
7 -----------------------5
8 -----------------------4
Shield soldered to shell of 25 pin connector only.

I've drip fed up to 4 meg programs using DNC4U and hardware handshaking with zero errors.
Interesting! I will add that to the list of things to try tomorrow. I should be able to match that wiring without too much effort if the null modem cable proves no more effective directly plugged into the NC, avoiding side panel wiring issues.

To the settings question, I've tried about everything on the PC as far as handshaking and baud, with 7 data even 2 stop as the baseline. I tried the settings referenced in the Mitsubishi pdf from their site, in this image:

1000008130.png

I also tried changing a few things from that baseline over the hours of testing, but I didn't change very much since I couldn't figure out why it seemed to only work to send.
 
Connected the null modem straight to the NC and to a real desktop just now. No difference, the NC will start data out if the PC is in receive mode, but nothing shows up.

Trying next list:

-one other Cable, to USB adapter
- rx/tx 3 wire cable
- last cable with handshaking that was suggested
-dnc4u
-raw serial monitor to see any differences with these.
 
Last edited:
Alright, I tried, directly into NC:

- USB null modem rs232
-regular usb rs232
-3 wire rx/tx with 6820 and 45 jumpered at machine and null modem adapter
-dnc4u

No luck or progress. I am still able to send a program. I noticed that my USB null modem cable has an rx and tx light -- the tx lights up when I send a program. I can't see ANYTHING on the Rx light, though the machine says it's sending.

As far as I'm aware, the only big thing is that I set handshaking to software or hardware, and if it's software i should be at least seeing Rx lights? Continuity seems fine with the multimeter from the adapter to the db9 side.

Next is making the cable vancbiker mentioned.

I could also set up the oscilloscope on the Rx / tx and see if I dee anything when sending from the machine, since I imagine if it says it is sending even if DC code or handshake stuff is off, I should see some activity?
 
On long running moves like tool change, sending programs gives p460 tape I/o error.
If I am interpreting that correctly, it means your handshaking is not working, in either direction.

Since the upload to the CNC sorta works, you might try working with a very short program that only contains long running moves that cause the p460 error. Diddle the handshaking until the uploads work without error. Then your downloads will probably also work.
 
If I am interpreting that correctly, it means your handshaking is not working, in either direction.

Since the upload to the CNC sorta works, you might try working with a very short program that only contains long running moves that cause the p460 error. Diddle the handshaking until the uploads work without error. Then your downloads will probably also work.
Fair point

To this end, I kept playing with things. Using dnc4u, a null model cable, and a USB to serial adapter, I've managed to get a samole program to send at 4800 baud (ignore the 1200 in screenshot) but it stutters whenever the machine sends CTS off (red), even though I've played with the FIFO buffer size and even changed to drip mode in dnc4u, the PC is sending 21% of the program at a time and the cnc is definitely not lacking lines to be fed yet.

The good news is the PC does pause to send more lines until the cnc is ready. Still not sure why it is stuttering, though

PXL_20230718_233604368.MP.jpg
PXL_20230718_230806422.MP.jpg


Still no luck on seeing anything uploaded from the machine. Trying one more adapter and the serial tester.

Any suggestions on the stuttering?

The same program runs without stuttering from mdi
 
Here's the program running without stuttering in mdi/memory:

Here's it running with stuttering via drip feed in dnc4u, whenever the cts light goes red, even though a bunch of the program has already been loaded and the dnc software isn't sending anything new ter each time the cts pauses the gcode for a half second:


Sample program I ran:

%
O0000 (T)
T3 ( 1/2 FLAT ENDMILL)
M06
(MAX - Z.25)
(MIN - Z-.45)
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Y1.15
G03 X1.15 Y1.2 I-.05 J0.
G01 X1.1
X1.0547 Y1.1905 Z-.446
X.9897 Y1.1619 Z-.44
G00 Z.25
M05
G91 G28 Z0.
G28 X0. Y0.
G90
T1
M6
M30
%
 








 
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