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checking out a 1994 VF3

madmachinst

Stainless
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Location
Central FL
I see a beat up looking machine around me for sale, praying that it works. I am thinking I will need to check to see that it tool changes smoothly first. But I also want to program or MDI ( whatever is fastest) it to do a Circle in aluminum using a 1/2" end mill. I am thinking would be quickest to touch the mill to X Y and Z. Call Z zero and Move mill to center of workpiece and set that to say G54. I don't have patience to fuss with tool offsets when in some one else's shop. Now the big question is what is the rest of my code to do a few things I am interested in doing.
A.) I am not too worried about this cause it will be easy part. I need to rapid out of G54 say about 3" and then return and see that all went back to same position. I'll be using a mag base indicator. 1X for the X axis 1X for the Y axis and Z axis can be done with some shim stock and top of workpiece.
B.) Regarding G02 and G03 my memory not too well on how to write those. I need to Mill a circle on the outside of this aluminum stock say 1.5" diam anybody can write a G02 that will give me that without using a G42. For example just program a 1" radius instead of .75" radius ( .25" for tool radius)
C.) finally would like to mill a pocket on the inside of the stock say about .875" diam to see how it handles that. Probably a G3 and G41 just don't remember all the details.
D.)Anything else you guys suggest I check?
Been a long time since I wrote any Gcode and never programmed a VMC ( tool changers and stuff) before.
On a side note,
E.) Can this thing be moved with skates and then loaded on to a flat bed tow truck for delivery without being risky? Not interested in paying a rigger more than I am paying for the machine.
Thanks everyone.
 
I'd probably let the owner demo it.

Have you moved a machine on skates? The floor has to be real flat or you basically can't push it. A vf3 is _heavy_, I'm thinking 12k lb, you don't just lift this onto a flatbed with a weeny forklift, it probably has to be lifted from the side which makes it worse.

If the machine looks trashy it'll probably need repairs. And probably even if it doesn't. It's just part of the learning curve.
 
I'd probably let the owner demo it.
That's why I want to see this thing doing circles. Easy to measure and easy to see backlash.
Have you moved a machine on skates? The floor has to be real flat or you basically can't push it. A vf3 is _heavy_, I'm thinking 12k lb, you don't just lift this onto a flatbed with a weeny forklift, it probably has to be lifted from the side which makes it worse.
Was thinking more like use the flatbed winch to pull it up the flatbed. BTW when I said flatbed meant the car towing type.
If the machine looks trashy it'll probably need repairs. And probably even if it doesn't. It's just part of the learning curve.
Not all of use have $30,000 plus sitting burning a hole in our pockets.
 
You can hand jog to check backlash. Cutting a circle will not tell you a little more. The backlash is compensated in the parameters. Check those values first to see how much it is already compensating for. If it is compensating a lot then changing direction as for a circle. the faster the cut the more it will be off because it has to rapid to take up the backlash when changing direction. If the compensation is already small then you will be able to put in whatever compensation is needed and make good cuts.
If a VF3 is actually around 12K lb, moving it up 1 foot on a 6 foot ramp takes 2000 lb force without frictions. Will a car trailer hold that much weight?
I presume a '94 has brush motors, check in the cabinet for the servo drives. If it is, as you say, trashed, you will likely have to clean out the carbon in the motors. Otherwise you will start getting over currents.
Check the screen. Most likely uses a CRT which might have burn-in. Tubes are hard to find. LED screen replacements are available but expensive because they are used on CNC.
Mine: '91 VF1
 
Sorry if I'm negative, that's not my goal here. But I bought a 96 vf2 and have gone through it myself, so I'd guess there is going to be little stuff to fix no matter how close you look at it, kind of like buying a car.

About winching it, I think it's too heavy and tippy to do it that way, but that's just my gut opinion based on moving my vf2 around. I borrowed a forklift to offload mine, had to use extensions.
 
Sorry if I'm negative, that's not my goal here. But I bought a 96 vf2 and have gone through it myself, so I'd guess there is going to be little stuff to fix no matter how close you look at it, kind of like buying a car.

About winching it, I think it's too heavy and tippy to do it that way, but that's just my gut opinion based on moving my vf2 around. I borrowed a forklift to offload mine, had to use extensions.
I’d never try to winch it up. Sketchy as heck. Will damage the deck and most likely fail. Just not worth it
I’ve done the smallish forklift think on my tm mills. It worked. Lil sketch
Honestly getting a forklift delivered and such was more than just hiring a picker truck to pickup, move across down and drop off. And a picker is very co trolled and safe. Oh. And insured for the work.
Not an area I will cheap out on again,
(And I’m a 1 man garage guy)
Mills and lathes all have lifting points. Use them.

As for checking the mill out. I always just do a backlash test with the handjog.
Push the table around by hand.
Listen/feel the spindle.
Tank a few cuts of possible

I’m not sure what your goal is. But even if the machine is free/perfect there’s gonna be some expenses. Be prepared for that. Don’t go broke over it
If your looking to dabble on a dime get hobby gear. Easier to resell and recoup the money.
If your gonna make product get ready for some un foreseen costs. Tooling costs…all that. $10,000 after delivery is a good cheap starter budget.
And have fun!
 
You can hand jog to check backlash. Cutting a circle will not tell you a little more. The backlash is compensated in the parameters. Check those values first to see how much it is already compensating for. If it is compensating a lot then changing direction as for a circle. the faster the cut the more it will be off because it has to rapid to take up the backlash when changing direction. If the compensation is already small then you will be able to put in whatever compensation is needed and make good cuts.
Good little reminder there that I need to check backlash parameters and see if they are say over .002" then that is too much? Won't the actual cutting of the shape also tell you how the system acts under pressure, which should be different than when just jogging. How do I get to backlash comp screen?

If a VF3 is actually around 12K lb, moving it up 1 foot on a 6 foot ramp takes 2000 lb force without frictions. Will a car trailer hold that much weight?
I see roll back tow truck won't cut it. barely have 5-6 tons of capacity.

I presume a '94 has brush motors, check in the cabinet for the servo drives. If it is, as you say, trashed, you will likely have to clean out the carbon in the motors. Otherwise you will start getting over currents.
Check the screen. Most likely uses a CRT which might have burn-in. Tubes are hard to find. LED screen replacements are available but expensive because they are used on CNC.
Mine: '91 VF1
Well, it does run. Plan on using it as long as possible and then do the upgrade thing. What is my indication on the drivers that I am dealing with brushed motors? Is there a screen that tells me if it is undergoing overcurrent?
 
Sorry if I'm negative, that's not my goal here. But I bought a 96 vf2 and have gone through it myself, so I'd guess there is going to be little stuff to fix no matter how close you look at it, kind of like buying a car.

About winching it, I think it's too heavy and tippy to do it that way, but that's just my gut opinion based on moving my vf2 around. I borrowed a forklift to offload mine, had to use extensions.
Negative, I am used to dealing with grumpy old guys in a manual shop. Your'e not nearly as negative as those guys. Helpful, Reality check, but not negative. I bought a 91 BP V2XT first sunk $2500 in parts when could have just fixed a gunked up homing switch. Wasn't too happy with that then sunk $9000 new parts into it. Now I am knocking my head in the wall, no tool changer, neither has it got sufficient mass to keep it from rattling when roughing 4140PH . I need all the reality check I can get.
 
Have not seen the inside of a VF3 cabinet but if it the same as the VF1, on the left there will be a row of cards below the computer boards (three stack). If it has metal boxes then it is brushless. The brush have two wires to drive the motors, the brushless have three.
The parameters page will show the backlash settings. They are in encoder counts. The only output for overcurrent is an alarm that stops the machine and will tell you which motor.
Download the service manual to get all the parameters and alarms.
You realize Haas wants something like $30k for an upgrade. Not sure if that includes the servos.
 
I made what I call ski's, they worked great for 8 machines


 
Kustomizer... Would love to see some pics on that rig and skis?
Sir Madmachinist- welcome to the Haas space. A lot of folks know the DC based 90's machines. There is so much info that you can fix about nearly every system and sub-system from the archives here.
- Note: You must mount the spindle to the table for moving. See the install guide's from the 90's on how to do it or make a custom mount. The table can slide when you incline the machine. and a 3 table is heavy.
- if it'll make you money now.... get it in, setup, leveled, ping us on the basics -
- the not-so-good It'll be worn and ridden hard usually. tool changer, draw-bar, power-supplies, sounds like fun!

peace, CG
 
You can tell a lot by walking in someone's shop just by using your eyes. If the machine is still under power just have the owner throw a blank in and make a part for you. Pull back the waycovers and see if they do any routine mntc. Like mentioned put an indicator on and check backlash in each axis. See what they have for repairs/parts they've thrown in it over the years.

If you are dead set on no rigger they do rent 15k forklifts see what they want for one dropped off or rented on a trailer. Unless its being sold for scrap value if its in not great condition I'd probably pass. '96 is about the cutoff on how far back I'd go.
 
Kustomizer... Would love to see some pics on that rig and skis?
Sir Madmachinist- welcome to the Haas space. A lot of folks know the DC based 90's machines. There is so much info that you can fix about nearly every system and sub-system from the archives here.
- Note: You must mount the spindle to the table for moving. See the install guide's from the 90's on how to do it or make a custom mount. The table can slide when you incline the machine. and a 3 table is heavy.
- if it'll make you money now.... get it in, setup, leveled, ping us on the basics -
- the not-so-good It'll be worn and ridden hard usually. tool changer, draw-bar, power-supplies, sounds like fun!

peace, CG
I really don't have any more, there wasn't much interest at the time, what were you wanting to see?
 
That machine likely has brush servos. The upgrade will require brushless so the servo drives and servos plus all the wiring has to change also. This is a guess as I do not have experience with it. I suggest you contact Haas and find out before going further.
It is also possible the spindle drive is not compatible with the upgrade.
Haas does not support the brush machines and do not have many parts for them at least in the way of boards.
 
Sir Madmachinist- welcome to the Haas space. A lot of folks know the DC based 90's machines. There is so much info that you can fix about nearly every system and sub-system from the archives here.
Thanks, I guess really have to figure out if parts are avail and at what point is it wiser to make an upgrade than throwing hard to find parts at it.

- Note: You must mount the spindle to the table for moving. See the install guide's from the 90's on how to do it or make a custom mount. The table can slide when you incline the machine. and a 3 table is heavy.
If the previous owner didn't do this, what would happen? Got drawings for something I can make from readily available ( ACE, Lowes) brackets.

- if it'll make you money now.... get it in, setup, leveled, ping us on the basics -
EXACTLY

- the not-so-good It'll be worn and ridden hard usually. tool changer, draw-bar, power-supplies, sounds like fun!

peace, CG
I'm a praying man.
 
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