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Chlorinated vs Non-Chlorinated Soluble Cutting Oils - What's the Difference?

Wiley QualiChem

Plastic
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Chlorinated vs Non-Chlorinated Soluble Cutting Oils - What's the Difference? Pro's con's etc, according to mfr they are both great and have same basic description, does one work better than other, or is one just less carcinogenic than other, or......
Jumping on this late, but better late than never...

Chlorine in the form used in metalworking fluids is usually a chlorinated paraffin or chlorinated olefin. The reason for using a chlorinated coolant would be to extend tool life when cutting iron-based metals. The chlorine will react with the iron to form a metallic soap. This formation helps prevent BUE, welding, etc. Chlorine is not used for bacterial or fungal control in metalworking fluids. In the absence of a chlorinated EP, many producers will use a sulfurized compound that behaves in a similar way. However, using a sulfurized EP in a water-based coolant gets tricky because sulfur becomes a food source for bacteria.

Chlorinated coolants work best in operations that run slow with deep cuts (relatively speaking). Shops in Europe have been faced with very high disposal costs when using chlorinated coolants, so most do without. Increasing speeds, reducing depth of cuts can help you program out of most EPs. That being said, if you can use them, they are usually a benefit and rarely a con.

Some metals and industries avoid or prohibit the use of halogens because of potential detrimental affects should the part see very high temps in use. With the exception of nuclear work and some jet engine/turbine work, chlorine is rarely a problem. Titanium often sees the use of chlorinated coolants without issue so long as the parts made do not see elevated operating temps. Chlorine is still widely used in the ortho implant industry without problem, for example. Most companies that avoid using chlorinated fluid do so for environmental/waste disposal reasons.
 

deltap

Cast Iron
Joined
Sep 3, 2004
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Everyone who handled the old refrigerants(11,12,22) which are clorinated/florinated hydrocarbons, was required to be licensed. The training included chemistry and why not to release them into the atmosphere. Chlorine is what damaged the earth's ozone layer. In most forms it is not a problem. But refrigerants are nearly indestructible and rise to the highest level of the atmosphere where they are broken down by the sun and react to destroy the ozone layer. All the sodium cloride in the oceans never gets high enough to cause a problem. There are many related industrial chemicals that react the same way. Reason why many have been banned or replaced with less effective chemicals.
 

Joe Gwinn

Stainless
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Location
Boston, MA area
Everyone who handled the old refrigerants(11,12,22) which are clorinated/florinated hydrocarbons, was required to be licensed. The training included chemistry and why not to release them into the atmosphere. Chlorine is what damaged the earth's ozone layer. In most forms it is not a problem. But refrigerants are nearly indestructible and rise to the highest level of the atmosphere where they are broken down by the sun and react to destroy the ozone layer. All the sodium cloride in the oceans never gets high enough to cause a problem. There are many related industrial chemicals that react the same way. Reason why many have been banned or replaced with less effective chemicals.
Yes, but what does this have to do with cutting oil?
 

RoundHouse M&F

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Location
Speedwell
Chlorine is the second biggest whore in the periodic table, second only to fluorine. It really wants to mate with anything it finds. Those hot little chips? It combines with the surface layer to insure that chip is going to have an oxide layer and will not reweld to the parent material. Remember the old tap magic, original formula? It worked a treat, better than anything else, due to the chlorine (IIRC tri-chlor). It got banned for health reasons, but in small amounts I have always worried about the effect of ulcers on my health more than most carcinogens.
my machine tool instructor talked with us about the old days with cutting/tapping fluid with trichloroethane, Like the original cool-tool (have a tube in an unopened package some where that he gave to me when he retired from teaching), he said on of the main health effects which he knew first hand was pancreatic cancer. He said he was able to catch it in time, received treatment and was cured before it became anything major, he would always say to us and the new guys "this stuff would tap the worst stainless like it was aluminum, but in the long run the health risk just isn't worth it, know your MSDS and dont wear the stuff".

Running a manual lathe gloves were a no no to avoid being entangled in the chuck (the gorey pic's of what happened when you get sucked into a lathe were the first thing you got shown in the class to teach you to respect the chuck and dont wear things that can get caught and kill you), but changing parts in a cnc lathe/mill rubber gloves were always advised to keep it off your hands.
 

Blaser Swisslube

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Location
Goshen, NY
Technically speaking, the carbon-chained link lengths determine the quality of chlorinated paraffins. The longer the chain, the better the quality. Chlorinated paraffins can improve tool life because they can withstand such a high tolerance of heat. For example, we use extra long chain to meet the EPA's standard of least harmful additives.
 

dian

Titanium
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Location
ch
So it looks like some good reasons not to use it, so what are the good reasons to use it? They do claim the chlorinated is the "best seller", and there is no difference in price, so...?
bestseller: because of nostalgia (goood old times, mental inflexibility?). the extreme pressure compounds chlorine, sulphur and phosphorus are 100, 80 and 60 year old technology. back then a lubricant either had them and worked well or didnt and worked not so well. they had nothing else. other substances are available today that work much better, although some of the original three are often still present in small (synergetic) amounts.

we dont use polychlorinated stuff like ddt any more and dont spill dioxines on dird roads either. (a bit far fetched, but you wouldnt build a house with asbestos today.) or think of the automove world, where a lot of enthusiasts still believe their oil has to have 2000 ppm of "zinc" (zddp/zdtp) to function.

chlorinated/non-chlorinated conundrum: the spectrum is from chlorine in your body you could not live without (salt) to poison gas (as used in ww1 before they found more poisonous stuff). its one of the most produced chemicals. impossible to tell whats in a "non-chlorinaded" product. i have seen "The exact percentages of hazardous ingredients have been withheld as a trade secret." declared as 70-80%. a typical chlorinated lube would contain 2500 ppm chlorine, most non-chlorinated will have 10-100 ppm (my guess) and an theoretically absolutely free product would have about 25 ppm by the time you mixed it with tap water.

epa seems to have some kind of 1000 ppm threshhold on reporting. blaser, could you comment on that, please?


edit: chlorine has been found to cause stress corrosion cracking (in ss steels?).
 
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