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Cincinnati Monoset Tool and cutter grinder new user.

New stuff is *okay* just not as long lasting as the old stuff, won't hold an edge as long. I used to use Cleveland Mo-Max all the time, loved it. Bought some new stuff and was resharpening *way* more often. Noticed it was not just a fluke, it was that way with all the new stuff that's now made in India, Mexico, etc. Same with the files. I think QC is just lax in these other places. So I just hunt for NOS any more.
I'm thinkin' those old time iron puddlers knew stuff that didn't make it to the new places; mbas don't want to accept that folks on the floor have special knowledge gained through experience, knowledge that can be given to a youngster on the way up, but never if demanded by some suit.
 
Had ran Blanchards, surface grinders with straight and custom form wheels.
Spin and swing fixtures on the SG and of course the same/same on a Cinnic tool and cutter grinder.
Then the monoset. Learning new stuff to say the least.
This machine can do anything but it is not fast and a maybe a tad confusing in adjustments.
The machine you love to hate. Once dialed in awesome. Dialing it in to the knat's ass is an art learned over time.
I build my own 4,5,6 axis cnc tool grinders. This machine taught me much humility and the how and whys.
I had four of them running flat out 3 shifts. Now gone but so many lessons learned in tool grinding.
I do not think there any book that can possibly handle this with all the possibilities.
Get you feet wet and do the wonder why it comes out at it does.

Yes I am of not much help.
So here on cnc I get a choice of contrast rake or cylindrical radius on a corner. In a monset setup you are fixed.
Which is better for cutting?
SAY what crazy Bob? one is a cone the other is a true rad down the sides. These act different since the heel clear is different as we wrap around the tool.

I will go with a nice machine but a bit hard to master all those dials and setups. The devil himself lives in the details.
Not so super accurate but it can do so many things nicely in the right hands that are hard do without one.
Hence the the hate and love from here.

Simple with any new machine... play and learn. Measure what happens.
I do this over and over with people on this. Why did it not measure right? What is wrong or backwards?
Why did you move this dial and something else unexpected went sideways? Oh.
I just smile and say "you just put a handful of $40 parts on the scrap table" .... We have all been there.
Bob
 
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Thanks everyone for the replies. Some great information to ponder and do some research on.

CarbideBob, yes many times the nuances with machines like this are about the Operator.. I see this all the time with hand work, or when working with someone who has 40years on a machine.. Be it metal lathe or table saw. They know how to dial it in.

Do you have a favorite diamond dressing tool for the monoset?

I have to order some blanks so will then get after it.

eKretz, There is definitely something about steels produced over seas in some places.. The old American and German HSS is nice..

Whats the alternative??? What I mean is. Quality and control is based on the MFG.. If they let standards slide then one does not know until it's to late.

I had seen on another thread that the Monoset collets (aka 5CH) will take ER32 as well? .........

I pulled the head drive motor apart as it was making a little noise.. That and the original mount is missing and they cobbled together this monstrosity.

So I'll make a new one..

On that note.. Are these motors oil filled or grease filled? There is an oil port in the front of the nose and the shaft output is sealed.

Turns out the rear fan was bent and rubbing inside the motor case. Easy fix..
 

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You've got that a little sideways. The *workhead* will take a separate 40 taper ER collet chuck. The Cincinnati collet nut will *not* natively work with ER collets.

The gear drive on my workhead motor was full of grease when I got it. I took it apart and cleaned and regreased. I am thinking about switching to a variable speed DC drive.
 
You've got that a little sideways. The *workhead* will take a separate 40 taper ER collet chuck. The Cincinnati collet nut will *not* natively work with ER collets.

The gear drive on my workhead motor was full of grease when I got it. I took it apart and cleaned and regreased. I am thinking about switching to a variable speed DC drive.
OK, thanks for clarification on the collets.

The DC drive makes sense. Fully adjustable both speed and direction.

AC VFD with 3ph motor not enough torque at low rpms?
 
OK, thanks for clarification on the collets.

The DC drive makes sense. Fully adjustable both speed and direction.

AC VFD with 3ph motor not enough torque at low rpms?

I'm sure it would be fine with the right reduction or a lower speed torquier motor, but I already have an assortment of DC motors and PWM controllers handy. And VFDs are more expensive.
 
For your own in house cutters most often altering a standard citter is best.

Sharpening an end often you can facet grind the secondary and then butter fly (just go in and out) as you roll the heal up into the wheel..Yes watch out for the under tooth/edge.
 
For your own in house cutters most often altering a standard citter is best.

Sharpening an end often you can facet grind the secondary and then butter fly (just go in and out) as you roll the heal up into the wheel..Yes watch out for the under tooth/edge.
Thats makes a lot of sense..

Buy older slightly worn cutters perhaps? I used to flear market a lot and cutters were everywhere..

Major industry left back in the 90's so a lot of that stuff dried up..

Once the good weather comes in, I'll have to hit the flea market and see what I can come up with.
 
OK, don't judge me to harshly.. This drill bit was missing 0.375" off of one side.

Today was the first time firing up the machine and I had several broken drill bits, so decided it's at least some play time.. I usually sharpen bits by hand so have an OK idea of what they are supposed to look like.

It was/is certainly interesting seeing or figuring out what does what and how to have the correct spacing for everything to run (travel).

I can see this machine is going to be a LOT of fun to learn about. I can also see where the results will be excellent once figured out.

My attempt to split point it was lackluster.. Figuring out which way to turn the bit in relation to the wheel and then figuring out how to use the built in clicker stops. I think one of the tooth mounts would be better used, but I don't have one yet.

Also, I am in need of some shutter fabric or a good replacement.
 

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Photo doesn’t look that good, might just be the photo.
The split gash is just a small gash usually done with a harder wheel.

Here find some points to shoot for.
 
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Photo doesn’t look that good, might just be the photo.
The split gash is just a small gash usually done with a harder wheel.
It does not look good at all.. I had it looking decent then decided to split point and that was that. I"m not sure how to put in the relief angle on this machine. By hand, I usually angle the drill back some.

I went and looked at the link you posted.. Great basic info.. Was good to read again.. Last time was 25years ago.

With this said.. I spent about 15min time on this drill. No protractor or angle finders..

I used CBN for the split.. The CBN cupped wheel or cut was in the wrong direction. From what I understand it should have come across the trailing edge of the tooth.. I came in from the top or gullet.

I have some books coming that were recommended.. and I'll go out to my library and pull out my abrasives/tool sharpening books if i can find them.. 1930's vintage.

Just received the Cincinnati Milacron Monoset Model MT M-5040-5 and it has all the information needed to do a respectable job with a monoset from what I have read so far. It actually has operational instructions.. yeah!!!

For me, there has to be play and mistakes to see the relationships and how they interact. I don't mind making mistakes at this point in the journey.. It's part of learning.


Learning from someone with experience is the best way for me to learn, but there is very little information on "how to" on these machines.
I will make some videos with basics if and when I get good enough.

Something of note.
The relationship between the very tip of the cutting edge and the back or relief cut was impossible to see. (no accurate way to see nor a relationship to accuracy in position. I used the dials and micrometer stop on the spindle head which helped with depth, but not in rotation of the drill itself.

The INDEX blade and ratchet plate I tried to use but could not get the opposite teeth to align. They seem to have a lead.

Lots of learning to go.. Love it.
 
eKretz or Michiganbuck, have either of you sharpened drill bits on the Monoset?

If you have, can you possibly snap some photos of your settings? There is a rotating relationship for relief I'm having a hard time seeing.

I can see the motion with the work head tilted and extended a certain amount past the center point of the swivel.. (distance or stick out past the center point to increase the radius or back cut of the cutting edge). Swiveling with the bit over the cutting edge should give it an extra mount of sweep. (longer arc).

The new Monoset Milacron book shows great examples for milling cutters of all sorts, but not drill bits.

Still curious about the (diamond dressers) people are using to radius their grinding wheels.
 
I have not split drills on a Monoset, and I don’t have one here to experiment.
The split grind does not go way toward the the OD as you have tried.

look at I and J. -> the split thinning is not very wide.
QT : The conventional split point (CSP) is highly productive but is limited since it cannot be utilized on drills beyond 1/2" dia. (I did not know that, but have not made splits oner 3/8")
GENERALLY, less clearance for hard metals and increased clearance for softer metals accordingly. (I have found the one can get into real trouble making a drill point with under 10*.. that may act like no clearance at all, might break a machine.)
 
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Thanks.. I was hopeful that one of the experienced people here might have.. :)

My results today were much better. On the larger bits I have to use a wider wheel.

I cheated the polish on the belt grinder.. But today's results were better overall. Just a little touch up.

Took, a little longer about 30 minutes and 2 wheel changes for different wheel profiles.

Some of the cheap drills have thicker webs. So being able to thin the web was one of the attractive aspect of this machine.

It's going to take a long time to learn the machine.. I'll start putting notes in a journal for later.
 

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eKretz or Michiganbuck, have either of you sharpened drill bits on the Monoset?

If you have, can you possibly snap some photos of your settings? There is a rotating relationship for relief I'm having a hard time seeing.

I can see the motion with the work head tilted and extended a certain amount past the center point of the swivel.. (distance or stick out past the center point to increase the radius or back cut of the cutting edge). Swiveling with the bit over the cutting edge should give it an extra mount of sweep. (longer arc).

The new Monoset Milacron book shows great examples for milling cutters of all sorts, but not drill bits.

Still curious about the (diamond dressers) people are using to radius their grinding wheels.

I have done some four facet points. I set the clearance by tilting the workhead up. Set the lip of the drill parallel to the table, rotation-wise, while it's locked in to the index pawl. Grind the primary, then increase clearance for the secondary and set a stop to grind to the center.

I mostly grind and split drills with my Black Diamond grinder. It's super fast, about like using a pencil sharpener.
 
You might angle dress a wheel 45* or 60* with the straight wheel side toward you drill center about .005 short of center. come to the part (drill) at a height the would make the split gash about 1/6 to 1/8 wide depending on the drill size. Dressing the angle as its radius become too big. the off-center side would stay the same distance to center and might be adjusted down to .003 or so...might set a stop so to go the same depth and run perhaps 8 drills and he give a little dress to the wheel, with a CBN wheel you might do more drills between dressing.
 








 
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