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Cincinnati Monoset Tool and cutter grinder new user.

eKretz Excellent that information helps a lot. Will give me a direction to look into. I just learned about 4 facet on drills..

What I mean is, just stumbled into it on few searches..

Commercial drill bit sharpeners do a great job..
 
You might angle dress a wheel 45* or 60* with the straight wheel side toward you drill center about .005 short of center. come to the part (drill) at a height the would make the split gash about 1/6 to 1/8 wide depending on the drill size. Dressing the angle as its radius become too big. the off-center side would stay the same distance to center and might be adjusted down to .003 or so...might set a stop so to go the same depth and run perhaps 8 drills and he give a little dress to the wheel, with a CBN wheel you might do more drills between dressing.
That is a great idea.. Love it. That is one of the problems I ran into was the change in radius so figuring out which radius would fall away on the bit as contact engaging with the trailing edge or tail.

Thanks guys for the ideas.. I'll post back with the results..
 
I usually stick to watching and posting on the Antique section of this forum but happened to look here the other night and found this thread that caught my attention .
I don't have as much experience with my Monoset as some others.
I agree with Carbide Bob that digital read outs would be very helpful on one of these machines
There is a picture of a setup on one of the older models of Monoset in this book .
1713750050842.png
You have to scroll back to here to see the start of the story
I have not seen any other models like this shown anywhere but maybe some of the older versions of the treatise book that are also on the Hathi Trust site may show more of them .
I made a similar attachment for my 1950s Monoset to convert a 4 flute core drill into a tapered drill or cutter for a customer.
It was in 1998 so before I had a digital camera so I scanned a couple of pictures.
They may not show up too well .
My machine is far from a prime example but I was able to fair number of odd jobs with it that I don't know how I would have done otherwise without having a CNC .
I am running out of time for tonight but have a few more links and pictures I can share perhaps in a few days once I get some neglected jobs looked after.
Jim
 

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I usually stick to watching and posting on the Antique section of this forum but happened to look here the other night and found this thread that caught my attention .
I don't have as much experience with my Monoset as some others.
I agree with Carbide Bob that digital read outs would be very helpful on one of these machines
There is a picture of a setup on one of the older models of Monoset in this book .


Jim
Hi Jim, That is awesome.. I love the blue color of your machine..

Did you install a larger drive motor? If you did I have a bunch of questions.

Glad you found this thread and your information is very appreciated. I've gone over the links and love to get a copy of that manual in hard print.

If someone can recommend a reasonably priced DRO I would certainly install one.

I'm on a limited budget at the moment.. With the school build and buying the Monoset and extra missing tools.. lets just say I will have to save again for a while.

Going with a larger 1/2HP spindle motor with VFD is reasonable cost wise. I did find the smaller stock motor was struggling some with the larger bits I have been dressing. So taking lighter cuts with clean/sharp stones is the key.
 

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I don't know what the stock motor was on those machines .
I would think 1/2 HP. is certainly big enough for most work maybe 1/4 is even enough for most work I don't know although perhaps not for high speeds .
I think mine is a 3/4 H.P. but it was just one I found at a low cost the fit in the space.
I rarely use more than a 4 " wheel and most are CBN or Diamond.
The more power you have the easier it is to burn the cutters .
Mine has had several modifications some by me and several before I got it .
I'll try and cover some of that later.
Your internal attachment looks nice.
It might be useful some day you never know .
Finding used parts on line is easier than when I got mine in the early 1990s
You just have to be patient and things will turn up .
I had to make many parts and made them to suit what I thought I needed at the time .
I was lucky to have a friend who did very nice work to help me make some of them at a very reasonable cost but then he had somewhere to get cutters he needed made at a low cost as well so it was a trade off .
Sadly my friend passed away so I have to make my own stuff now or the customer has to help out sometimes too.
Lots of stuff on mine is not stock .
It helps if you can think a bit like the guys on this channel more than doing it by the book since a lot of jobs that you might want to do with a Monoset aren't in any book that I know of.
I'll try and add some more as soon as I can.

Jim
 
The newer model MT monosets came with 1/2HP .. Going 3/4hp was probably a good move.

I'm an outside-the-box thinker for the most part and not much of a "join the group" to join a group person.
I'm always on the move to learn about something that interests me and these older machines.

Love those videos.. I prefer the videos of people doing real things for a living just like what America was built on.

Mind you I"m saying America but in early industry all countries had hard workers with no OSHA control nor so much government intervention.

I"m not anti osha or government.. I'm for industry.. Foundries, steel mills, etc, etc.


What did you end up putting in for a sheave for your 3/4HP drive? Belt type?

Thanks for all the information about setting up your machine.
 
I don't know what the stock motor was on those machines .
I would think 1/2 HP. is certainly big enough for most work maybe 1/4 is even enough for most work I don't know although perhaps not for high speeds .
I think mine is a 3/4 H.P. but it was just one I found at a low cost the fit in the space.
I rarely use more than a 4 " wheel and most are CBN or Diamond.

Lots of stuff on mine is not stock .
It helps if you can think a bit like the guys on this channel more than doing it by the book since a lot of jobs that you might want to do with a Monoset aren't in any book that I know of.
I'll try and add some more as soon as I can.

Jim
Hey Jim, I just wanted to ask a few questions.. Hope you haven't tuned this thread out completely yet.

I find on many forums once information is shared that's it.. With no response as to results.

I ordered a 3ph 1/2HP 3450rpm motor.. What did you use for a belt and pulleys?

I'm hoping to find a belt that is easy to replace when worn, and possibly off the shelf. I've tried to find a extra narrow V belt but not sure where to start as it's complicated to find micro belts.
 
eKretz,
Sorry I gave the credit to the wrong person about the DRO .
I remembered some of Carbide Bob's other comments that I thought were good points and got kind of mixed up posting late in the evening when I should have been calling it a day .
JLP Services,
I have been trying to get some work done for a deadline and not being too successful so I've had to back away from spending too much time on line .
You mentioned being on a budget and I think if it were me buying DROs for thousands or even hundreds of dollars might be something to put off until you have your machine up and running and doing actual work .
Sure they are nice to have but if you can't do a job with out the DRO you won't do a lot better with one .
I have attached some scans of a pamphlet by Cincinnati Milacron from 1991 showing the pulley arrangement from that was on the machines being sold then .
Mine came with out a motor and the spindle pulley had grooves for a 3/8"top width V Belts that I thought were too stiff .
I first had a small high speed DC motor on mine that a friend helped build the power supply for.
The motor bracket was made to take that.
When the power supply failed on that and my friend wasn't able to help me in time I took a 3 phase motor that I had here and made and adapter plate for it to fit on the bracket that was made for the earlier motor and made a one step pulley for it so I could finish the job I was working on at the time .
That happened before 1998 and I have never run into a situation where I needed to change it to get a job completed.
The belt I use is a small traction belt that is of the same type as the Polyflex belts sold by Gates
There is probably a Gates distributor near you or there are other makes sold but places like Amazon .
I'm fortunate to have a local local long established industrial supply house near me that knows their belts and bearings so I only look else where when they can't help me out.
I have no Idea what number mine was it probably came from some box of auction finds .
I'll probably have to put the pictures in more than one post.
I'll try to reply more when I can but it may take a week or more.
If you are really stuck on something send me a private message or conversation and I will try and get back to you if it is a quick answer.
Jim
 

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These pictures show my machine as I received it .
Also some close ups of my motor assembly.
The set up would make it easy to change speeds if I had more steps on the motor pulley .
I was afraid that the bracket might not be stiff enough but it hasn't been a problem so far .
There are no drawings or plans it just kind of got that way with a bit of figuring and the help of some very good experienced friends .
It was a process I'm not sure I would repeat today but it was a different time then too before the Monoset clones arrived from Asia at about 1/3 to1/2 the cost of a new real one and before CNC machines more or less made the Monoset obsolete for the most part.
Jim
P.S
I don't know if this was posted earlier but here is an operators manual posted on Vintage Machinery
parts book
Older sales pamphlet
 

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Here are some more pictures
Showing the gears from inside the work head.
I had new one$ made for mine since these were not working well .
I had an adapter made to use the wheel hubs from my Tos BN102B grinder .
That adapter is on the machine in the pictures in Post #43.
The Tos has a #3 Morse taper hollow spindle and uses the extensions shown with the small nose taper and a double pitch coarse one side fine the other side nut to hold the hubs on.
My adapter has one end with the taper and double nut and the other end like the Monoset hub also shown.
I also use the 40 taper collets and tooling I have for other machines in my Monoset when it they are needed to get a job done .
The ER 20 collets appear to have the same taper as the smaller Monoset Collets but my adapter is on a friend made for me so I would have to trim it back and make a new nose cap to use them .
I just use the 1" straight shank ER holder in the 1" large Monoset Collet .
The Hardinge couple of large and small Monoset Collets I bought new from Hardinge close to 30 years ago were very expen$ive then so I can only imagine what they would cost now.
All I can add for now .
Maybe I can add more after May 1st.
Jim
 

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You added plenty.. Lots of great info. Thank you.. NO rush either.. Really appreciate all the info and spending the time.

I have all the manuals.. both for the OM machine (which is what I have) and the MT or newer style. The MT manual has a great section on how to use the Monoset.. Not as detailed as the Cincinnati Treatise on Milling machine tools.
But a good section on use/how to.

I've ordered the book just mentioned and should be here today.

The OM manual has nothing in it as to using the machine really.

You have some great tooling additions to your machine for sure. I can see where they would be useful.

I have a decent set of A and C collets covering the standard range in 1/8" I also have a smaller adapter that will run up to about 3/8" IIRc.

Do you know what your spindle speeds are with your pulley arrangement?

Great posts thanks so much.
 
I found the spindle pulley that came with my machine.
It is unlike any other shown in the literature posted above and has no part number stamped in it like most original Cincinnati parts so it is probably something someone else made.
The spindle pulley that is on mine now was made using the one that came with the machine for measurements and to give me roughly the same speeds mentioned in the 1990s literature I posted with the 6,000+ RPM motor I initially put on the machine.
When I mounted the existing motor I made the motor pulley to give me one speed of about 4,000 R.P.M. or somewhat more than the 3450 R.P.M. on the motor badge.
I'd have to figure that out .
If I need a different speed I'll have to do some calculations and turn up some new pulleys or modify mine .
Maybe a variable speed drive might be an alternative now too since there are more options than were available 20 + years ago.
Maybe someone with one of the newer machines can give you the dimensions of their pulleys and the idler / tensioner if that's the arrangement you want to use.
On my machine the spindle pulley has an internal left hand thread and has part of the dust shield for the bearings on the back side.
If I remember when it's threaded on , the pulley acts against a spring to give the preload to the angular contact spindle bearings.
I have not done many or any modifications to my machine for 20 or maybe closer to 25 years so maybe someone with more recent experience can add more.
You just want to be sure not to run over the rated speeds of the grinding wheels you are using and be sure to guard the wheels some how.
I've seen more than one wheel break while running on other machines and know someone who has some broken teeth and facial scars after forgetting to change the belt speed on their tool post grinder.
 

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Don't sweat sharpening drills to much. I've sharpened a lot of drills using SG or T&C grinders, and the straight grind is pretty poor on large drills when you compare it to a specific built grinder like an Oliver.

As for the rotary scales, there used to be readouts that used a steel tape around the circumference of a rotary, and was reeled up on a spool with an encoder. No idea of brand or manufacturer.
 
Yup, most of the modern "aftermarket" ones I've seen use a tape scale wrapped around some round part of the machine with the encoder held close to the tape. There are also those with rotary encoders though. Usually those are the big name OEM guys.
 
So rotary.
Your any servo motor has a rotary encoder that a common readout will accept.
I a am not understanding the question.
Here is the trick. For a rotary axis one usually needs super high counts so that 1000, 2000, 4000 count encoder will just not cut it.
When using the "tape" method that mounting surface needs to just about perfect in size and runout.
Sort of the same problem exist on a high count rotary encoder. Here the axis of the encoder has to run perfectly true to the rotation world or you will get per cycle per rev errors.
 
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