Clark vs Hyster/Yale 15k forklift

[dkmc]

Got the lifts home yesterday, a friend had a heavy duty rollback that worked well for one at a time. The right drive wheel on both machines were frozen so you were right about the brakes, but they slid right up the ramp without too much trouble, I think just the parking brakes are stuck. Haven't had a chance to take a close look yet but I at least need to get a starter solenoid, plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and a battery, then clean up some wiring and see if I can get one or both running before I get to the brakes as I'll need to use some blocks up under the mast and tilt it to get the front wheels up in case I need to get the drive axle ends off. Looks like rain tomorrow & probably next week until I have parts in hand anyway.

Any progress?

 

[tomjelly]

Waiting on a starter solenoid, should be here today or tomorrow. I want to get the engines started before I do anything else. Cleaned everything up inside, tapped the e brake arm on the drum down so hopefully the e brake will release, got the propane set up, pulled a plug on each and looked in with a borescope which looked ok, plugs looked good, made up new battery cables, junked the decayed seats, now pricing up parts I know I'll need but not buying anything until I see how they run. Btw maniacmotors.com sells starter and generator rebuild parts. Solenoid was $17 that would have been as much as $200 (!) at other places (the starter was 225-450 depending on where). I'm waiting till it comes to make sure it fits and if so I'll need another for the other starter as well as a pinion for that one. I was poking around on the web and I see rebuild kits for that engine are pretty reasonable; if I was to need to rebuild one, do the new liners need to be bored and/or honed to size after installation or is that just a put them in, assemble, and go? (I'd measure clearances of course but just wondering if it's typically not required to bore to size as I've never done liners, only rebored blocks)

 

[Steve in SoCal]

Wet cylinder liners are generally to size. What engine again?

 

[tomjelly]

perkins 4-236. Kit is here (but its not a diesel, presumably a similar LP version is somewhere):

Diesel Engine Rebuild Kits & Parts | Heavy Duty Pros

www.heavydutypros.com

with the bargain version here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354316999294

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The ebay kit says fully finished liners

 

[tomjelly]

that's good. I just need to find the LP version, I've heard the engines are the same except for the pistons.

 

[Ox]

Doo you have a compression tester?

I had (have) a Chivy 250 6 banger that had a miss that I just couldn't remedy, and when comp checked - it was down a fair amount on one cyl, and slightly on a second.
Pulled the head off to find one exh valve looked like it should have broken off already, and the second way cracked.

I doubt that your bore scope was gunna see the valves?








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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[tomjelly]

I can see the valves, my scope has a side camera which works very well. Looks OK. I took out the rest of the plugs, cleaned them and scoped the other cylinders, looks good. Got my solenoid today and put it in, left the plugs out and spun it over and smelled propane so its getting fuel, but when I put the plugs in the starter is drawing more amperage than it should and the engine is turning very slow, too slow to start and too slow for a new 950 CCA battery and 1/0 cables- I did get a few sputters though. I'm going to pull the starter apart just to check if its all carboned up or has other issues and unless its an obvious internal problem I can fix I'll just get a new starter as I've found a reasonably priced ($167 shipped) source. when I get it spinning right I'll do a compression check. On other issues, this has a 2 stage brake master cylinder; 1st 1-1/2" of brake pedal operates the inching valve, then all the way for actual braking. $425 part and looking down there the boot is off so I'm expecting a rusty mess inside and the pedal has no resistance. Maybe it can be sleeved.

 

[john.k]

The Taiwan made high speed geared starters are the way to go........at least with diesels ..........they really spin the motor over.

 

[tomjelly]

There is a different starter specified for the diesel version of this engine, but I don't want to take a chance of it not fitting. If I knew it would fit and was heavier duty I'd get it.

 

[tomjelly]

Opened up both starters I have, the "better" one I was using has a high resistance short from commutator bars to the shaft and the other one is smoked inside, so I ordered a new one.

 

[john.k]

The are many different starters that will fit a 4/236 Perkins,and often the choice is limited by the bell housing of the tranny.....starters like the CA 45 dont need a clearance for an end bell,like the traditional Delco Remy type .....but even without this clearance space ,the geared starters fit ok,as they just have a pinion sticking out......there may be spacers between the starter and flywheel housing ,however,to adjust the end clearance to ring gear teeth

 

[tomjelly]

Do you mean axial spacers to adjust how far the pinion protrudes? that spacer would also need to extend under the mounting bolts, correct? BTW got the new starter and put it in, got lift # 1 started, so that's a win so far. Had all kinds of jumpers strung around because the ignition switch was bad and I was holding the throttle linkage so I just ran it for about 30 seconds, but I know it runs now. I'll get things organized tomorrow and see if it moves or goes up and down

 

[john.k]

Yes ,axial spacers that are the shape of the starter mounting flange ......some of these can be quite thick,as some flywheels had odd shapes ......the thickest Ive got would be 1&1/2" thick cast iron which IIRC is from a Dodge or maybe IH truck and the CA45 ......the M50 Lucas starter and most of the Taiwan starters use a 1/2" thick spacer.

 

[tomjelly]

OK got my new starter in, new plugs, wires, rotor, dist cap, and ignition switch, took apart and cleaned the (filthy inside) lockoff valve, fuel filter, vaporizer and carburetor. Wires were off by one on the distributor cap and the vaporizer and lockoff diaphragms were perforated, so I swapped in the identical good lockoff and regulator from the other lift after inspecting and cleaning them. I think it was running on only propane leaking by the lockoff valve diaphragm into the vacuum line before. In any case, now it starts easily, runs and revs up, but backfires thru the carb once per revolution. I double checked the firing order, ran the #1 piston to compression tdc and the distributor rotor is right where it should be. I marked then loosened the distributor and while running the engine would die if i moved the distributor either way from its original position, so I returned it to where it was.
There is a degree scale on a tab on the engine at the crank pulley BUT no mark I can see on the pulley... So I marked my #1 TDC and put a timing light on #1 plug wire and can't see my mark while running. (I need to do this again as there may have been too much background light and I need to use a paint marker as all I had that would show up was welders soapstone marker) This Prestolite distributor has no vacuum advance, has what kind of looks like a Pertronix electronic ignition module in the distributor (no black box, goes straight to the coil) and a 4 lobed magnet wheel. There is an aftermarket ignition coil marked "no external resistor required" but the system DOES have a ballast resistor. The rotor does not appear to have any rotational springiness to it that would indicate a properly functioning centrifugal advance, so I will be taking the plate with the module off tomorrow to see if something has gone wrong inside the distributor.
Along the way I rechecked compression and it was 143-149 on all 4, and confirmed the firing order of 1342 by checking that the cylinders were on compression stroke in that order. I'm hoping I find something funky inside the distributor because I'm not sure where to go after that, though I will be removing the valve cover anyway to adjust the valves so seeing that everything is moving correctly up there will be nice but I doubt there is any problem there considering the good compression. Any other ideas?

 

[Garwood]

I purchased my little Komatsu forklift with a similar problem. It ran OK, but had a solid miss. A completely dead cylinder. Compression tested good.

I put a spark tester on each cylinder while it was running and found I had one wire not firing. One of the magnets had come out of the Pertronix rotor causing the whole problem. Pertronix sent me a new rotor for free.

 

[tomjelly]

Yes I will be pulling the wires one at a time to try to isolate the cylinder tomorrow.

 

[Garwood]

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6/ref=sr_1_5?crid=GXCLIRUO1TA4&keywords=inline+spark+tester&qid=1679970747&sprefix=inline+%2Caps%2C2187&sr=8-5

These inline testers are great for this stuff. Pulling wires can be surprisingly hard to tell sometimes.

 

[tomjelly]

I've been meaning to get something like that, the plug will still fire with that in the line?

 

[Garwood]

I've been meaning to get something like that, the plug will still fire with that in the line?

Yes. They are pretty slick.