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Clausing 6300 worth it?

Congratulations on stealing a nice lathe. The lathe is about 600+ lbs sitting on a 350 lb steel bench. If you haven't moved a machine like this before, try to find an experienced friend that can help. It's good to have someone tell you when you are about to really eff things up.

...on the Heald, i need to find out if it’s 9 B&S or 40 nmbt. Is one preferred over the other?
That looks like a mill from E.M. Heald of Springfield, Missouri, not the British company known for grinding equipment. If the seller has a Heald horizontal mill with a vertical milling attachment, the horizontal spindle will be 40 NMBT and the vertical attachment will be No. 9 B&S. With a little patience, they can be found. If the seller has the E.M. Heald vertical mill, the spindle might be a #30 or a #50, also relatively easy finds. Don't let accessories stop you from buying.

On the other hand, the mill will weigh in at about a ton. Can you rig the mill out of the seller's shop and into yours with the equipment you own or can rent? Make sure you have a good plan and plenty of time. Do you have enough space and a good, strong floor in your shop?


Tom
 
So I committed to buying the lathe (yay!).

Please excuse my lack of knowledge here, but on the Heald, i need to find out if it’s 9 B&S or 40 nmbt. Is one preferred over the other? Which one is better easier to get tooling for? In other words, and I SOL finding tooling?
You will be able to find tooling to fit whether it is B&S or NMTB, although there is more of the NMTB around.

I've got a Heald horizontal, NMTB, which dates probably from the 1950s. It's a pretty rigid mill, and as a horizontal there is nothing to go out of tram. X travel is about 20 inches.

The verticals differ from the Bridgeport-type mills in that the motor is in the base and there is no nodding capability to the head. It does swivel. Giving up the nodding capability is not a big deal, as it will be more rigid without it.

The NMTB versions sold for a premium over the B&S versions.

You could also get a vertical head for the horizontal mill. There were two versions - one with a fixed spindle and one with a quill that allowed feeding.

There has been a Heald on eBay for quite some time, with a starting bid of around $15,000. Knock out a zero and you might be in the ballpark. At $400 it's a great deal, unless it's been trashed.
 
Congratulations on stealing a nice lathe. The lathe is about 600+ lbs sitting on a 350 lb steel bench. If you haven't moved a machine like this before, try to find an experienced friend that can help. It's good to have someone tell you when you are about to really eff things up.


That looks like a mill from E.M. Heald of Springfield, Missouri, not the British company known for grinding equipment. If the seller has a Heald horizontal mill with a vertical milling attachment, the horizontal spindle will be 40 NMBT and the vertical attachment will be No. 9 B&S. With a little patience, they can be found. If the seller has the E.M. Heald vertical mill, the spindle might be a #30 or a #50, also relatively easy finds. Don't let accessories stop you from buying.

On the other hand, the mill will weigh in at about a ton. Can you rig the mill out of the seller's shop and into yours with the equipment you own or can rent? Make sure you have a good plan and plenty of time. Do you have enough space and a good, strong floor in your shop?


Tom
Actually, the horizontal versions came - at least in 1956 - with NMTB 40 or B&S 9 spindles. The vertical only mill had a NMTB 30 spindle. I believe that both versions of the vertical attachment were also NMTB 30. Tooling is available whatever the spindle taper.

Tom is right that this is heavy machine. It's about like a Bridgeport. Way lighter than a Cincinnati or Milwaukee, way heavier than a mill/drill type. But I loaded mine in a pickup, without a rigger. I did disassemble it first - removing the overarms, table, knee, column and motor. The cast iron base was the heaviest part.

If you do move it complete, lower the table until it rests on wood blocks so you don't strain the elevating screw or nut. Might also want to block up the motor.
 
Don't let the B&S 9 tooling scare you off. I have a Gorton mill that uses them, a member here supplied me with a BS9 to zz collet chuck, and I found a bucket full of zz collets on ebay. There is/was a seller on ebay selling new made in India BS9 collets, thinking of trying those, no idea if they are any good.
 
Buy both and then make sure to have the seller throw in or buy for more money, any and all tooling that looks like it could go with either machine. Here is the thing, if the guy used these machines he had to have the tooling. It might in drawers, boxes, on shelves but should be somewhere in the shop. It is so easy to get all excited about the big shinny objects (lathe and mill) but all the little stuff can be many times the value of those and without could render them less useful or cost way upwards of the purchase price to replace.

In other words, don't forget the little stuff.
 
Standard shop equipment also includes a folding leg "4 ton" shop crane- consider upgrading the hook and chain to something not made out fo silver cheese. Makes jobs like plucking the bed off the lathe base and backing a pickup underneath a lot easier- quite often there is no help or rigging resources, smart DIY is often the only way forward.
 
I loaded both my Elliot mill and more recently it's sibling an Invicta shaper by getting both on a pallet using a jigger to roll the machines onto my [steel] stoneboat then winching the boat up onto our trailer. Very stable and quite easy.
 
I went out to the shop again today to take more pics of the Lathe and Mill. There are boxes of little stuff, way more than I can list off. First off, here are pictures of the lathe and pictures of relevant areas (ways, carriage, compound, etc.). Two things on the shopping list: new chuck (CME L00 Adaptor Plate and chuck), tool post. On the subject of the tool post, is this something easily changed?

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On the Mill, this is a Heald Machine Works 1BT. I honestly don't know what I am looking at. I have several drawers of random parts, from what I can tell a bunch of cutters and collets. I confirmed that it used B&S 9 tooling, but like I previous poster mentioned, I could run a B&S 9 to ER, but I could also find B&S 9 collets.

I was not able to turn it on since it needs a plug attached, but the table runs smoothly and is clean, no play in any direction. Also, I took pictures of inside the upper and lower cabinets. Belts look like they have seen better days, but otherwise it looks clean. Also, thanks for all the help, I am flying blind here.

Thoughts?


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i wouldnt think that mill super heavy.........especially if it can be separated from the base..........I consider a small floor standing mill to go 1Ton,which they generally do.........id say there would be two bits there both under 1/2ton............I might also comment ,if buying off someone you (sort of ) know,its not outrageous to leave a machine with them for a little while (say under 2 years)
 
i wouldnt think that mill super heavy.........especially if it can be separated from the base..........I consider a small floor standing mill to go 1Ton,which they generally do.........id say there would be two bits there both under 1/2ton............I might also comment ,if buying off someone you (sort of ) know,its not outrageous to leave a machine with them for a little while (say under 2 years)
I just found the weight, it’s just a hair under a ton. I’m hoping my garage floor can handle it
 
"I’m hoping my garage floor can handle it"

It'll handle it, and you'd kick yourself later if you didn't get that mill along with the lathe.

Oh, you asked about the lathe tool post - Any modern quick change type will fit, probably a BXA size. You'd just have to machine a T-slot nut to fit the top slide.
But that's what you need the mill for, of course :~)
 
That is a handy little mill- very nice, I think you'll be glad you got it. Probably a lot of cleaning and fiddly things to work on for a while on both. Looks like a great combo :)

IIRC the gearbox shifting on the 6300 is fairly unique and should be done with some care.
 
On the Mill, this is a Heald Machine Works 1BT. I honestly don't know what I am looking at. I have several drawers of random parts, from what I can tell a bunch of cutters and collets. I confirmed that it used B&S 9 tooling, but like I previous poster mentioned, I could run a B&S 9 to ER, but I could also find B&S 9 collets.

I was not able to turn it on since it needs a plug attached, but the table runs smoothly and is clean, no play in any direction. Also, I took pictures of inside the upper and lower cabinets. Belts look like they have seen better days, but otherwise it looks clean. Also, thanks for all the help, I am flying blind here.

Thoughts?


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Thats a horizontal mill with the vertical head attachment, if you hadn't figured that out already. Should be an excellent machine for your home shop... even better deal than the lathe. Nice to see the outboard arbor support (for horizontal use) is still present, and that the vertical head is the handier quill version. It also has a little crane for removing the vertical head, like a larger K&T or Cincinnati, which is pretty handy.

The vertical spindle is definitely No. 9 B&S, but the horizontal could be either taper. You'll have to remove the vertical head to confirm.

B&S No. 9 collets are still made... overseas, but they are decent enough quality. I use a set daily in a Burke mill we have at work. End mill holders may be available as well, and if not new they come up used with some regularity, along with boring head shanks. With a little bit of patience and eBay searching you'll have it tooled up pretty quickly. Worst case, B&S tapers are pretty easy to make on a lathe.

If you're worried about the weight on your floor, make a wood pallet to set the mill on that will distribute the weight over a larger area. Or, if you have access from below, jack posts are cheap.
 
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