What's new
What's new

Complete List on Monarch 10EE Bearings and Known replacements.

GrantGunderson

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Location
Bellingham, WA
During the course of my 10EE complete teardown, I have complied a full list of all of the bearings in my 1944 Round Dial and from what I have researched are compatible modern replacements. It will be interesting to compile a list of the bearings in other years, and a list of what people have successfully used as replacements. If you have any bearings different than what is here, please post, and I will modify the spread sheet.

Excel Sheet of 10EE Bearings / parts.

Here is a link to a 1944 New Departure Catalog that Cal sent me.

In my research, I hand found that New Departure specifically marked any Bearings destined for precision use, such as in a spindle with the amount of Eccentricity, and the high spot. I believe these are the "Check marks" you see on some of the bearings, as well as the ##XX numbers as well. These all appear to be hand etched on the bearings.

ND Numbering System:
Reading Right to Left:

First two digits is the bore size

Third digit is Series, 2 = Light, 3 = Medium, 4 = Heavy, 5 = Non Loading groove light, 6 = Non Loading Groove heavy.

Fourth Digit, 1 = single row maximum capacity, 3 = Single Row non loading grove, 5 = double row, 7 = shielded, 8 = ND Seal Type

Here are a few of New Departure's bearing prefixes and subfixes.
A = Rust prevention compound
BA = Single Row Angular Contact, Singly Mounted
BC= Single Row Radial, Non-Loading Grove Assembly
BD=Double Row Angular Contact
BL=Single Row Radial, Loading Groove Assembly
BM = Single Row Separable Bearings (Magneto)
BIC = Single Row Radial, Non-Loading Groove to inch sizes.
C= sheilds on one side. or High melting point grease
D= Duplex pair
DB = Duplex front to Back
DF = Duplex Face to Face
DT= Duplex Thrust
DU=Duplex Universal
F = Single Row Angular Contact, Duplex
G = Snap Ring
L = Loose or can be Standard preload
M = ?
N = Flanged type = Modern equivalent is NR
P = Sheilds on one side
PP = Shields on both sides
Q= non metallic seperator
R series = inch series
S= Special
T= Universal Ground or Can be tighter fit. or can be Heavy preload
V= ?
W = ?
X= medium preload or standard Internal fit-up
Y= low speed noise tested
20 series = Angular contact light series (most companies is a 7 series)
30 series = Angular contact Heavy series.
4XXXX or 4XXX = Snap Ring
47XXXX or 47XXX = Snap Ring and Shield
7XXX or 7XXX = Shielded on one side.
77XXX or 77XXXX = Shielded on both sides.
8XXX = Sheilded standard width
87XXX = Shielded and Sealed wider than standard bearing
88XXX = Shielded, sealed and lubricated for (life)
WC-8XXX = Outer Ring width is equal to over width of standard 8XXX series
WC-8XXX = Shielded with wider center race.
WC - series was designed to be mounted into softer metals

1,3,5 prefix is ABEC
 
Last edited:
Head Stock Bearings

NOTE: I believe that the factory tried to match the amount of eccentricity with the front duplex and the rear spindle bearing. Mine where all 12XX with the exception of the front of the duplex having been previously replaced and it was a 13XX. I am curious if that holds true for others.

Front of Duplex.
"N"2012 "DB-T" / NM2012. OD 10mm, ID 60mm, 22mm Thick. Flanged, flange is 116mm. Has "M" crossed out from NM2012. Duplex, type DB-T, 15 balls 19/32, radius 0.6 ABEC 5 or 7
IMG_0343.jpeg
Rear of Duplex.

2012 - V- OD 110mm, ID 60mm, 22mm Thick. No Flange. Duplex, type DB-T, 15 balls 19/32, radius 0.6 ABEC 5 or 7
rearoffrontduplex.jpeg
Rear Spindle Bearing
New Departure R 5210 has 12XX and a check mark on it.
ND Catalog: 50mm Bore, 90mm diameter, 30.2mm width, 7/16” balls, 16. Per row radius .04 Double row angular contact R is high load capacity.
The checks mark the highpoint and the 12XX is the amount of eccentricity.
RearSpindle.jpeg
Headstock Reverse shaft oil Seal
Victor 60250 oil seal
Replacement : AVX #TC25x44.5x6.
Headstock  Reverse shaft oil Seal.jpeg
rear reverse bearing was a loose slip fit on the reverse shaft. Its a New Departure 5205D. its 52mm OD and 25MM ID X 20.57mm thick. Replacement New Departure 5205D.ND W0256848
rear reverse bearing .jpeg
Front Reverse Shaft Bearing New Departure 3204 bearing, but there is a 4 scratched in front of that number. OD 47mm, ID 20mm, 14mm thick, has snap ping I believe this signifies it has a snapping on it Replacement is New Departure 43204.ND W0256848
Front Reverse Shaft Bearing.jpeg
Idler Gear bearing is a New Departure 3205 WT. OD52mm, ID25mm , 15mm Thick, T= tighter internal fit. Does anyone know what the W designation is for?
Idler Gear bearing.jpeg
The tachometer splash gear uses the same gear as the reverse idler gear. is a New Departure 3205 WT. OD52mm, ID25mm , 15mm Thick, T= tighter internal fit. Does anyone know what the W designation is for?
The tachometer splash gear .jpeg
 

Attachments

  • Headstock  Reverse shaft oil Seal.jpeg
    Headstock Reverse shaft oil Seal.jpeg
    515.6 KB · Views: 4
Last edited:
Gear Box Bearings

Feed Rod Plate

It uses two New Departure C8503 Bearings. 40mm OD, 17mm ID, Race is 12mm thick, center is 14mm thick. Shielded on one side.
Feed Rod Plate.jpeg
Feed Rod Plate Oil Seal Victor 60318 Evidently a Federal-Mogul Encased Seal 470045 50045S 60318 H296 00044 5330001790861 is a cross reference for it
Feed Rod Plate Oil Seal .jpeg
Tumbler Gear New Departure 3201 Bearing 32mm OD, 12mm ID, 10mm Thick.
Tumbler Gear.jpeg
Screw Shaft, Left


New Departure "PN" 20205 Bearing 52mm OD, 25mm ID, 15mm Thick.
Screw Shaft, Left.jpeg
Screw Shaft Right , open Bearing OD47mm, ID 17mm, 14mm thick, Flanged.
Screw Shaft Right.jpeg
Screw Shaft Right2.jpeg
Cone Gear shaft Right Hand bearing is a New Departure 3204. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm thick.
Cone Gear shaft Right Hand bearing.jpg
Left hand Cone Gear Shaft bearing out of the Gear Box. It is a New Departure C8504 Bearing. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm thick race, center is 15.27mm thick. Shielded one side.
Left hand Cone Gear Shaft bearing .jpg
The Clutch Gear Shaft uses 2, New Departure 3204 Bearings. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm thick.
The Clutch Gear Shaft.jpg
The Tumbler Shaft also uses a New Departure 3204 Bearing. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm thick.
Tumbler Shaft.jpg
 
Change Gear Stud

Uses New Departure C8505 Bearing. It is shielded on one side. 52mm OD, 25mm ID, 15mm thick,
Change Gear Stud.jpeg
Also uses New Departure NM0205B bearing. It is unshielded and has a step collar on it. It has a “211” engraved on the back. 52mm OD, 25mm ID, 15mm thick. Center is 17mm thick.
changegearstud2.jpeg
changegearstud3.jpeg
Feed Shaft
End gear side uses a New Departure ????? Bearing that is shielded on one side. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, Race is 14mm thick, center is 15.28mm thick.
Feed Shaft End gear side.jpeg
Feed Gear Shaft Gearbox side uses a New Departure 3204 bearing. Must be open unshielded. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm Thick.
Feed Gear Shaft Gearbox side.jpeg
 
APRON

Take up bearings for Saddle / Apron

********* 629-C-2HRS-L038

Apron Rack Pinon Bearing (front and rear)


New Departure C 88505 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm thick at race, 17.71mm thick at center. Shielded both sides.
Apron Rack Pinon Bearing  (front and rear).jpg
Friction Lever Assemblies:
Each uses two Thrust Bearings, 0.435” thick, 1.187” OD, ID 0.50” / 0.5635”
Friction Lever1.jpeg
Friction Lever2.jpeg
and one Inner Thrust bearing, 0.2540” thick, 0.8700” OD, 0.500”ID
Inner Thrust bearing.jpeg
Inner Thrust bearing2.jpeg
The hand wheel / Oil pump cam uses two New Departure C88503 Bearings. 40mm OD, 17mm ID, Race is 12mm thick, center is 16.57mm thick. Shielded both sides.
The hand wheel : Oil pump cam.jpg
Apron Feed Reverse / Worm Wheel shaft
Uses two New Departure C88504 47mm OD, 20mm ID, Race is 14mm thick, center is 17.72mm thick Shielded both sides.
Apron Feed Reverse : Worm Wheel shaft.jpg
Worm gear
Uses two Thrust bearings. .5580” / 14.2mm thick, 1.4685” / 37.31mm OD, .75” ID.
Worm gear.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • End Gear2.jpeg
    End Gear2.jpeg
    886 KB · Views: 0
  • End Gear.jpeg
    End Gear.jpeg
    873.5 KB · Views: 1
End Gear
Quadrant gears each use two C487505V bearings. These are shielded on both sides and have a snap ring. 52mm OD, 25mm ID, 15mm Thick. 4 total bearings.
End Gear.jpeg
End Gear2.jpeg
Belt Tensioners


Each uses Two MRC 204FS2 bearings shielded on one side. 47mm OD, 20mm ID, 14mm thick, 15.25mm thick at center, Replacement is a 8504 Bearing. Or a 87504 fully shielded / or sealed.
Belt Tensioners.jpeg
Belt Tightener Pully
Uses Two New Departure 8503 Bearings, shielded on one side. 40mm OD, 17mm ID, 12mm thick at race, 14mm thick at center.
Belt Tightener Pully.jpeg
 
Motor / Generator Bearings.
MG Rear. ********* 6304-c-2hrs
MG Front SKF 6205 2RSJEM

Exciter uses Two SKF 6204 Z

DC Motor Output shaft DC Motor Output shaft
DC Motor Rear bell bend cover. MRC 309SFF
Backgear lower front sealed SKF 6209-2RS1NR/C3GJN
Backgear lower back open SKF 6209/C3
Backgear upper uses two SKS 6203-2RSJEM
 

Attachments

  • 1664602733942.png
    1664602733942.png
    1.8 KB · Views: 5
  • 1664602887395.png
    1664602887395.png
    1.8 KB · Views: 5
It appears that the New Departure 88503, 88504, and 88505 are replaceable by NTN bearings with the same numbers. I have checked the inner shaft, outer bearing, and width (at shaft and outer bearing) and they match.
 
My 1941 round dial has worm gear thrust bearings that are very slightly different. The OD and ID match, but the thickness (height) is closer to 0.563" than 0.558". They are from two different manufacturers. One is a NICE 1005. I was unable to find that bearing on line. The other is a AETNA F5, which is currently available here:


I have no idea if these are original equipment. My lathe apron has obviously been disassembled at some point before I got it. My guess is the slight difference in bearing thickness between the bearings on Grant's lathe and mine doesn't matter.

Walt
 
I found some potential replacements for the friction lever thrust bearings. These are not exact, but I'm ordering them due to the low cost and lack of alternatives.

OUTER THRUST BEARINGS

At MiMotion


they can supply General Bearings thrust bearing 4454-00 BRG which is 0.500" ID 1.266" OD 0.4375" thick as a factory order. It's not an exact replacement, but the OD appears to be a non-critical specification, and the thickness is within 0.009" of what Grant measured. My friction clutch outer thrust bearings measure 0.420". I suspect that this dimension is fairly important, in as if the stack is too tall, the clutch won't release. But there has to be some wiggle room because this is a spring loaded mechanism. At any rate, mine are rusted and pitted, so I ordered these, along with their smaller siblings, the 4455-00 BRG, which is 0.500" ID, 1.00" OD, and 0.344" thick. Note these are shielded bearings, unlike the 3-part ones supplied as original equipment.

INNER THRUST BEARINGS

MiMotion also offers the INA(Schaeffler) FT015 and FT016. These are 0.500" ID, and 0.875" OD thrust bearings, 0.250" thick or 0.375" thick respectively. Grant measured these as 0.250" thick on his lathe, mine were 0.315". Again, I suspect that this dimension is somewhat flexible because the mechanism is spring loaded. At any rate, they are a stock item, and the cost is reasonable, so I ordered a pair of the 0.250" thick ones. The OD is a critical dimension because these bearings drop down inside a well machined into one half of the friction gear set. I spent hours on line searching for 0.875" OD, 0.500" ID thrust bearings. These are the only ones I found.

It may be some time before I reassemble my apron, there are a number of issues I found that will require more time to deal with than I currently have. I'll post again when I get the lathe put back together to report if these bearings function. I am a hobby machinist and have no expertise in evaluating the suitability of bearings to any application.
 
It appears that the New Departure 88503, 88504, and 88505 are replaceable by NTN bearings with the same numbers. I have checked the inner shaft, outer bearing, and width (at shaft and outer bearing) and they match.
I edited away my brain fogged post about the incompatibility of old vs. new stock in 88xxx series bearings. They have always been metric size bearings, and they match well between New Departure, NTN, and apparently SKF. I note that the width of the ND 88504 taken from my lathe measures the shaft bore 0.698" from end-to-end, which is 17.73 mm. Grant has it at 17.2 mm. NTN lists the dimension at 17.75 mm. I think this is, if accurate, an insignificant difference that could easily be adjusted into a good fit.
 
Last edited:
BDI Express carries the take-up bearing ********* 629-C-2HRS-L038 for $25.75. They showed a possible alternative from EBC, the 62922 for $2.49. I ordered the EBC bearings because if they turn out to be unsuitable, I'm out less than $10, and they are located on the exterior of the saddle/cross slide mechanism and are easily replaced.
Edit: I notice that the bearing manufacturer having a name in common with a slur against gay men has been blotted out with asteriks.
 
I found some potential replacements for the friction lever thrust bearings. These are not exact, but I'm ordering them due to the low cost and lack of alternatives.

OUTER THRUST BEARINGS

At MiMotion


they can supply General Bearings thrust bearing 4454-00 BRG which is 0.500" ID 1.266" OD 0.4375" thick as a factory order. It's not an exact replacement, but the OD appears to be a non-critical specification, and the thickness is within 0.009" of what Grant measured. My friction clutch outer thrust bearings measure 0.420". I suspect that this dimension is fairly important, in as if the stack is too tall, the clutch won't release. But there has to be some wiggle room because this is a spring loaded mechanism. At any rate, mine are rusted and pitted, so I ordered these, along with their smaller siblings, the 4455-00 BRG, which is 0.500" ID, 1.00" OD, and 0.344" thick. Note these are shielded bearings, unlike the 3-part ones supplied as original equipment.

INNER THRUST BEARINGS

MiMotion also offers the INA(Schaeffler) FT015 and FT016. These are 0.500" ID, and 0.875" OD thrust bearings, 0.250" thick or 0.375" thick respectively. Grant measured these as 0.250" thick on his lathe, mine were 0.315". Again, I suspect that this dimension is somewhat flexible because the mechanism is spring loaded. At any rate, they are a stock item, and the cost is reasonable, so I ordered a pair of the 0.250" thick ones. The OD is a critical dimension because these bearings drop down inside a well machined into one half of the friction gear set. I spent hours on line searching for 0.875" OD, 0.500" ID thrust bearings. These are the only ones I found.

It may be some time before I reassemble my apron, there are a number of issues I found that will require more time to deal with than I currently have. I'll post again when I get the lathe put back together to report if these bearings function. I am a hobby machinist and have no expertise in evaluating the suitability of bearings to any application.
I have been working on my apron. The General Bearings 4454-00 BRG appear to work acceptably well for the friction mechanism: the friction gear either runs free or locks with use of the control lever. There is some amount of adjustment available by using the #30 (or #72 per the Monarch Operator and Parts Manual) Friction Stem Nut. There's a small possibility that, since my lathe is not yet operational, there is a negative consequence of using this adjustment I haven't yet encountered. However, the difference in thickness measurements between Grant's and my outer thrust bearings makes me think this adjustment is OK to use.
 

So I decided I didnt like the angular contact screw shaft bearings I used I the gear box without the flange. I did a bunch of research and the proper bearings for it with the flange / snap ring are a 6205 and a 6303 bearing. The original bearings where Angular contact bearings with a flange which do not exist anymore. The 6XXX series is designed to take both radial and axial loads so should be find in this case.​

 
Here are the proper bearings for the Screw Shaft Assembly
image.jpeg
The left side is SKF 6203 2RSNRJEM. the right side is SKF 6205 2RSNRJEM. these come with retaining rings on them.
image.jpeg
Small problem. The retaining rings SKF uses are way to large of OD. I tried some standard external retaining rings, but they are still way too wide. I ended up having to order some low-clearance external retaining rings. These are the perfect size. It is unfortunate they dont make these more fully envelop the bearings diameter, but this the only solution I could find. Here are the links to the correct sizes at McMAster: 9968K27 and 9968K28
image.jpeg
I put some retaining compound on them and they snapped into place.
image.jpeg
I then replaced them on the shaft.
image.jpeg
 
Last edited:








 
Back
Top