Customer changing delivery date on existing PO

[Fish On]

How do you make money selling ONE powder coated assembly for $900?

This is one of those situations that you occasionally see posted on here where 1 shop is struggling to get 50/hr on a job, then someone 'undercuts' them on it, then later finds that other shop is making $150/hr on the same parts. Different ways to skin a cat.

These aren't job shop parts, just custom variations of one of my in house products - the custom basically is just in dimensions and powder coat color, and I have custom extrusions and dedicated tools for these parts.

Powder coating on this run would have cost me around $225 if I didn't have that other job of the same color (which also got billed for powder). Shipping is $60. You never run $600 jobs?

 

[kb0thn]

Powder coat is a wildly variable price thing, too. My former neighbor's shop did fabrication, sandblasting, and powder coat. I could routinely drop parts off in the morning and have sand blasted and powder coated parts before the end of the day. Oftentimes for a few dollars each and or something fairly substantial for $100. Their general manager assured me repeatedly that they were making money on those blast and powder jobs. Not a lot of skill, cheap materials, and high volumes.

 

[604Pook]

Powder coat is a wildly variable price thing, too. My former neighbor's shop did fabrication, sandblasting, and powder coat. I could routinely drop parts off in the morning and have sand blasted and powder coated parts before the end of the day. Oftentimes for a few dollars each and or something fairly substantial for $100. Their general manager assured me repeatedly that they were making money on those blast and powder jobs. Not a lot of skill, cheap materials, and high volumes.

My family has a powder coating shop as part of the main business, but they also do a lot of outside work in that shop, if the color is already being done, to throw a few more parts through during the run is pretty much just profit on top of what you already are billing for.

 

[guythatbrews]

My family has a powder coating shop as part of the main business, but they also do a lot of outside work in that shop, if the color is already being done, to throw a few more parts through during the run is pretty much just profit on top of what you already are billing for.

Where you is? I have an old arbor press with coats and coats of paint. I tried locally but they wanted and extreme amount to sandblast and powder coat. Like $400 I think.

 

[604Pook]

Where you is? I have an old arbor press with coats and coats of paint. I tried locally but they wanted and extreme amount to sandblast and powder coat. Like $400 I think.

Shop is in BC, Canada, will cost you more then the $400 to ship it there. My guess the shop there thinks it's going to take a long time to strip all the layers of paint off, and then the weight of the press factors in to how long it will need to bake in the oven to cure. if you wanted to try and get the cost down, take some time and coat it with some aircraft paint stripper, and get as much paint off as you can. Assuming you're in no rush, you could do it a few times and get the bulk of the old paint off this way. Just takes some elbow grease.

 

[Garwood]

I have found the smalltime powdercoat shops are a waste of time unless it's a finicky one off kind of job.

The best pricing and quality for me has been using another manufacturer that has their own in house blasting and PC line.

The big shop seems to do way better at actually blasting the stuff (not just dusting it off and coating) and the parts will be a uniform, thin layer.

Some of the smaller shops I've used often coat stuff .06". Must be multiple coats. Like they messed it up and have to do it again or something. I've had them strip the parts and do it over before because it won't work like that.

 

[604Pook]

I have found the smalltime powdercoat shops are a waste of time unless it's a finicky one off kind of job.

The best pricing and quality for me has been using another manufacturer that has their own in house blasting and PC line.

The big shop seems to do way better at actually blasting the stuff (not just dusting it off and coating) and the parts will be a uniform, thin layer.

Some of the smaller shops I've used often coat stuff .06". Must be multiple coats. Like they messed it up and have to do it again or something. I've had them strip the parts and do it over before because it won't work like that.

That comes with some shops painting everything hot, which creates a lot of build up, but does help coat weird shapes with nooks and crannies or they are just using cheap equipment.

Old engine, transmission parts especially cast parts, I would often paint hot, or at a minimum cook the hell out of them first, or they would usually have oil coming out of them during the curing process.

 

[Garwood]

That comes with some shops painting everything hot, which creates a lot of build up, but does help coat weird shapes with nooks and crannies or they are just using cheap equipment.

Old engine, transmission parts especially cast parts, I would often paint hot, or at a minimum cook the hell out of them first, or they would usually have oil coming out of them during the curing process.

Good to know. Everything I have coated is new machined and fabbed parts.

 

[john.k]

Local powder coaters also are electroplaters ........they charge the same exorbitant rates for either process.

 

[Fish On]

Oh, that's how they are
Buyer is an ass

You apparently hit that nail on the head. Outside sales guy from one of my metal distributors just stopped by, and that company's name came up - his first response was, 'be careful with them.'

 

[guythatbrews]

We used to do work for a "christian" company. They felt the need to make that known.

Over half the time the buyer would cancel an order we were already 1/2 way through. They "found the parts cheaper", so FU. No worries on our end. With the cancellation charge we made more than if we finished the parts, and they always paid. Musta happened 10 times.

I guess what goes around, comes around, because they are no longer in business.

 

[Garwood]

We used to do work for a "christian" company. They felt the need to make that known.

Over half the time the buyer would cancel an order we were already 1/2 way through. They "found the parts cheaper", so FU. No worries on our end. With the cancellation charge we made more than if we finished the parts, and they always paid. Musta happened 10 times.

I guess what goes around, comes around, because they are no longer in business.

I sure have noticed a pattern that companies or individuals proclaiming alignment with a religion, race, sex, military service or political group have problems doing business on the level.

 

[guythatbrews]

I sure have noticed a pattern that companies or individuals proclaiming alignment with a religion, race, sex, military service or political group have problems doing business on the level.

Seems that way. I hate to be cynical, but they've taught me to be wary of such.

I've known folks who were great to deal with, and only found out later they were big church people. More power to 'em. OTOH, the ones that wear that on their shirt sleeves and brag about it have not been so good. It's a shame, really.

 

[Ox]

There is a lot of truth to that.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[joecrs]

I have an order of 1 each of 2 assemblies. Small order, $900 total bill. Typically, this job has run qtys of 5 or 6 of each assembly at a time, so I get the idea this is the last run of parts for this company's contract (I ran these parts for the last company that had the contract for the same final assembly as well). PO placed on 7/27, with a due date of 9/15. No problem. The next day, they request to change the due date to 11/8. No problem, glad to oblige.

Now, I get an email saying the due date has been moved to 12/31/14 (end of next year), and to please postpone, or if I can't postpone, cancel and she'll resend closer to end of next year. Ugh.

Catch is, I've already run half the order. I happened to have another order that needed the same powder coat color as half of the components in this order, so I went ahead and fabricated those assemblies and got them powder coated last week. Now I've got to sit on and not get paid for powder coated parts for a year and a half, never mind the fact that I'm moving to a new shop in December.

I'd really like to go ahead and ship/get paid for these parts before the end of this year. Can/should I push back on this, or does that run the risk of losing the order altogether, and not getting paid for these parts ever?

I have an order of 1 each of 2 assemblies. Small order, $900 total bill. Typically, this job has run qtys of 5 or 6 of each assembly at a time, so I get the idea this is the last run of parts for this company's contract (I ran these parts for the last company that had the contract for the same final assembly as well). PO placed on 7/27, with a due date of 9/15. No problem. The next day, they request to change the due date to 11/8. No problem, glad to oblige.

Now, I get an email saying the due date has been moved to 12/31/14 (end of next year), and to please postpone, or if I can't postpone, cancel and she'll resend closer to end of next year. Ugh.

Catch is, I've already run half the order. I happened to have another order that needed the same powder coat color as half of the components in this order, so I went ahead and fabricated those assemblies and got them powder coated last week. Now I've got to sit on and not get paid for powder coated parts for a year and a half, never mind the fact that I'm moving to a new shop in December.

I'd really like to go ahead and ship/get paid for these parts before the end of this year. Can/should I push back on this, or does that run the risk of losing the order altogether, and not getting paid for these parts ever?

One thing I learned over they years is do not let a customer walk all over you and if they do you need to drop them. A good customer should be more than willing to work with you if you are a valued vendor. I have had this same thing happen to me, never for so long but anyway I explained it to the customer and they paid what I had into the job. I have also had orders canceled in the middle of the job again no question I sent them in invoice for what we had into it and they paid it. I have also had customers pull the hey quote 5 and 10 thing then order 5 at the 10 piece price, I let that go one time early one before I found out just what kind of assholes some purchasing agents can be. I came to the conclusion it is not worth working with a customer like that because in the end it will be you losing money not them. Lastly I tossed out a customer of 20 years that we did tens of thousands of dollars worth of work for because they kept changing payment terms. We started at 10 days which was unheard of and that was great then they went to 30 OK industry standard pretty much, then went to 60 which I was not happy with finally they wanted 90 days and I said nope not happening . This was a multi million dollar company, I went down to meet with them and they guy in charge said go get a 100k loan and use it to pay your bills until we pay you. I started laughing but turns out he was serious, the next day I told all the engineers I worked with down there we would no longer be doing work for that company. Currently all of my customers pay in ten days or less and some agreed to COD which is awesome I am not sure I will even accept another customer with 30 days or more payment terms. When it hits the fan we jump through hoops to get them out of trouble so seems only fair that they pay faster. Bean counters do not live in the real world so stand your ground if they screw you better to find out now than on a job worth 30k.

 

[CarbideBob]

Wonder it the UAW strike goes on long how many will see delivery dates pushed out.
A few I know have gotten a warning. One place has already been told to stop shipping certain products.

 

[SND]

Strike or no strike, how long are people going to be able to pay $1000+/month for a F150?
2009 will look like the good old days before we know it... I'm closing jobs and try to get rid of as much inventory as I can ASAFP.

 

[pgmrmike]

I wont give advice, one of my customers cancelled 3 POs a few days after I ordered $27,000 worth of 17-4, sawed to length. Most of it is still sitting here, been about 3yrs now, I guess. My hope was that I would end up getting the jobs, but over a protracted period. Turned out to be only partially true. This customer is particularly abusive when it comes to hot jobs, sending POs with a due date shorter than quoted etc. Shit gets old.

Ughh, yall jinxed me. The same customer referred to above cancelled a PO on me yesterday. Thankfully all I have invested at this point is programs and inspection data sheets.

 

[Ox]

Did "Customer A" ever pay for the 17-4?


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I am Ox and I approve this post!

 

[Fish On]

Looky here, they just replied to complete the order and ship on 11/8 as originally scheduled.

To @EmGo's point, I wonder how much of this is purchasing agents throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks? If I've quoted pricing for both qty 1 and for qty 5 or more, it seems I'll always get a PO for qty 1 at the 5 item rate. They'll immediately revise it when it's pointed out, but it never fails.

Well, way back when, they agreed to complete the order and ship on 11/8 as originally ordered, but I guess that doesn't mean they intended to follow through with payment. Been trying since then to get paid.

Good news is, my terms with them are full payment before the order leaves my dock. Better news is that absolutely nothing has happened regarding production on that order since I started this thread. There's about 3.5 hours left to complete and package that order, so I figured I'd wait until I get paid then knock it out real quick.