Deckel FP3 Buying Help

[alcro1998]

I am looking at a Deckel FP3. There are a few concerns I have about it and I would probably just buy it if it was not so far away. I am a bit hesitant since I don't want the long drive to be a waste. It looks like it could be a really nice machine though and appears to be a later model. I think it is worth more than asking but 9 hour dive for me.

The mill looks like it is in good shape and comes with the universal table as well. At least I think that's what it's called.

Main concerns-
1. The handle or knob thing on the one side is broken off. I am not sure what this is for. I have seen some pictures of it on other mills.
2. The original spindle motor has been replaced with a 220v motor but he said it is the same horsepower and has the same 2 speed. He does not have the original motor.
3. He said the control panel needs to be wired up since the new motor is not hooked up. It still has the digital readout scales but not the monitor.

Any advise would be helpful. I have always wanted one of these machines but I do not know a whole lot about them since I have never owned one. I told him I will give him an answer by this evening.

Thank you!

 

[Peter from Holland]

Originaly this machine is equiped with a active dro The heidenhein TNC 113 But if you are not after that function you can easily put on a new HH dro Check though if the powerfeeds are still working properly
What do they want for it??

Peter

 

[adh2000]

As Peter said the dro box is missing. Major downer. And the left side table feed is sheared off. Not fatal but ugly. Would be interesting to know what they want for it. Could be an ok deal, maybe.

 

[alcro1998]

$2k. Seems like a steal IMO as the extra table is probably worth that. So was the heidenhein TNC 113 a cnc type control? The guy said CNC something but I did not think that was correct.

 

[Peter from Holland]

Did not not notice the sheared shaft The last remaining bit might be bend I found out that the material from that shafts is weldable So you can cut the bend part off And then weld on a oversized shaft that you can turn down then
Peter

 

[Peter from Holland]

Buy buy buy buy Now Do not wait Buy it for 2k

 

[Peter from Holland]

The machine can do without the TNC It is only capable of stopping the feeds on a preset size You still ma ualy have to engage the feeds

 

[alcro1998]

I see that is a pretty cool feature. It is 2k but 2k and 18hours of driving

 

[lucky7]

Not a bad price for a project machine if you have the time, space and inclination, and don’t need the machine to be working this year. Not to be cynical, but I’d be expecting to find problems on putting back into service that may cost more than original price of machine. Agree that the universal table is worth almost the asking price.

edit for spelling (need my readers…)

 

[alcro1998]

Not a bad price for a project machine if you have the time, space and inclination, and don’t need to machine to be working this year. Not to be cynical, but I’d be expecting to find problems on putting back into service that may cost more than original price of machine. Agree that the universal table is worth almost the asking price.

What type of problems could I expect? He said mechanically everything is smooth and works fine. I think the power feed electrical could be tricky to get up and running. He said it was working fine when removed from the maintenance department and then sat in storage for some time.

 

[Peter from Holland]

What type of problems could I expect? He said mechanically everything is smooth and works fine. I think the power feed electrical could be tricky to get up and running. He said it was working fine when removed from the maintenance department and then sat in storage for some time.

Power feed without a TNC is pretty straight forward
A new drive from the OEM sets you back about 600USD + shipping
A problem would be the Siemens DC motor If that one is bad you better look for a used one on Ebay
Value working without TNC I estimate at least 10000 USD ???
With a TNC in decent condition 16000USD ???
Can someone with more knowledge of the US market confirm these prices ???
Peter

 

[adh2000]

I can’t really confirm any prices but I know enough to know that $2k is stupid low just buy the thing and ask questions later.

 

[adh2000]

The machine can do without the TNC It is only capable of stopping the feeds on a preset size You still ma ualy have to engage the feeds

This is true but the TNC also functions as the DRO which is really nice to have so you’d like to find one and put it back together. Anyway, just buy the thing already.

 

[alcro1998]

Well I talked with the guy some more and he said its cool if I put a deposit down and come get it in a couple weeks. Makes it easier to plan for pick up and everything. Seems like I can't really go wrong with the machine and could probably break even at least and just be out 18 hours of my life and 1000 miles on the truck haha.

Machine seems really nice even though it might require some work to get it going. Will for sure have a lot of questions when it comes in. When talking with the guy again, I found out it is a metric machine SO I will 100% need a DRO of some type. The company he worked for that he also got it from imported it form Germany. Seems like a really solid machine and the only real mechanical issue seems to be the snapped off handle.

What type of tooling does the spindle take? I looked a bit online but I am still not sure

Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far and helped me make a decision. Normally I can decide for myself but am not too knowledgeable on Deckels.

 

[adh2000]

Seriously if it doesn’t work out I’ll give you $2,500 for it. Too bad it’s metric that blows. Peter will buy it though.

 

[alcro1998]

Seriously if it doesn’t work out I’ll give you $2,500 for it. Too bad it’s metric that blows. Pete

It should work out and when I haul it 9 hours home I doubt I'll want to part with it haha.

 

[AlfaGTA]

The broken feature on the left side is not for a hand wheel. Normal kit is for there to be a stub extension of the lead screw on the left...That stub is to mount gears for using the spiral milling attachment drive gearbox....(Helical milling setup)

Broken end might indicate a bent lead screw, or not.....Likely could be straightened and a repair made to restore the extension if needed....Unless you have the spiral setup the extension is totally nonfunctional. Just buy the original style cover from Singer and cap the damage , provided that the shaft is straight....end of issue!

Just buy a Heidenhain 3 axis DRO counter box that will work with the older style scales (will have the round 9 pin connectors for the scales, E-bay?)

The original tooling consisted of direct mounting #40 collets that had the German specific draw bar male threads at the end of the collet.
(20X2,0 Buttress threads)
They are available but not usually cheap. CNC CAT40 or BT40 holders will work in the spindle tapers but you will need an adapter from the female thread in the end of the holder (Cat 40= 5/8-11, BT40= M16) to the draw bar ....Available from the usual suspects (Singer Germany)

FP3's are nice..That is a late machine having a separate feed motor. Feed rate there is controlled by a "pot" that varies the motor speed (DC)
Not shown in the pictures , there should be an electrical cabinet to control the feed and drive motor as well as power for accessories like the
optical rotary table, high speed milling head and centering scope.....
That box will have contractors for the motors as well as the power supply for the feed motor.....If this box is missing it will present some hurdles to recommissioning that machine....

Still it is a smoking deal at any condition....
Good luck,
Cheers Ross

 

[alcro1998]

Thank you for the reply Ross!

The guy selling the mill said the travel was very smooth so I would hope the led screw is not bent. I am glad it sounds like an easy fix as far as making it look nice. I didn’t think it was a hand wheel but couldn’t figure out what that thing sticking out in other pictures was. I did see the spiral milling attachment in other posts and would never need something like that.

Good suggestion on just buying an old 3 axis readout. I was able to find some of the original controls on German eBay but they were not cheap and I think they required turning in your old broken control. I don’t need all that fancy control anyways.

I appreciate the help and explanation of the tooling used. It does also have the electrical cabinet.

Thank you!

 

[jreiland]

I have the same machine with out the active DRO. I bought it from a fellow PM membe with drive issues,

Thank you for the reply Ross!

The guy selling the mill said the travel was very smooth so I would hope the led screw is not bent. I am glad it sounds like an easy fix as far as making it look nice. I didn’t think it was a hand wheel but couldn’t figure out what that thing sticking out in other pictures was. I did see the spiral milling attachment in other posts and would never need something like that.

Good suggestion on just buying an old 3 axis readout. I was able to find some of the original controls on German eBay but they were not cheap and I think they required turning in your old broken control. I don’t need all that fancy control anyways.

I appreciate the help and explanation of the tooling used. It does also have the electrical cabinet.

Thank you!

I have the same machine with out the active DRO. I bought it from a fellow PM member With drive issues, Singer in Germany has most parts in stock. If it doesn’t have the controls cabinet that would be alot of work to recreate. DM for wiring diagrams if you’d like.

Jon

 

[alcro1998]

If it doesn’t have the controls cabinet that would be alot of work to recreate. DM for wiring diagrams if you’d like.

Jon

Thank you for the help! It does have the controls cabinet luckily.

I’m sure I’ll need some help once I get it. The plan as of now is to get another heidenhein dro unit and just use the machine with the power feed and dro. I don’t think I need the other features and maybe I can keep an eye out and buy an original control some day.

Very excited to get the mill as it seems to be a very nice unit.