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Deckel Spindle Warmup & Temp
- Thread starter Harri89
- Start date
- Replies 61
- Views 7,298
Gloryrates500
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Location
- Cologne, Germany
Well... the question arises how long your bearings have been running under these circumstances and whether they have already been damaged as a result.
For cost reasons, it is certainly worth trying to re-grease the bearings.
On the other hand, if you're going through the tedious procedure of removing the spindle, I'd put in new bearings right away.
I guess for everyone here in the forum, a cleanly documented and commented spindle removal process would certainly be a highlight..
For cost reasons, it is certainly worth trying to re-grease the bearings.
On the other hand, if you're going through the tedious procedure of removing the spindle, I'd put in new bearings right away.
I guess for everyone here in the forum, a cleanly documented and commented spindle removal process would certainly be a highlight..
Gloryrates500
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Location
- Cologne, Germany
Yes I know. 
This is how it is described in the manual. But if you fill the oil up to the level on the sight glass, after 5 minutes very little if any oil will be visible in sight glass B. Unless you fill up A via the level (like in your picture) then if you run the machine and you have filled up in A until B is also at the level, the oil will go from A to B and bring that area to overflow.
I think it could be a reason for the high spindle temperature.
Since your vertical spindle, which you use 95% of the time, runs much cooler and is not affected by the oil levels and degreasing, in my opinion this is another indication of a problem with the H spindle bearing.
The vertical spindle is lubricated by short lubricating pulses from the control.
I think the slightly increased temperature in the V-spindle is due to the heat (radiation) from the horizontal area.
If my machine had too little lubrication, one could expect that my bearings would cause problems at some point.
My machine is from 1991 and it is the first spindle.... and it runs very often at high speeds.... for 31 years....
Surely the temperature problem can also come from something else. In any case, you should check it to be on the safe side.
This is how it is described in the manual. But if you fill the oil up to the level on the sight glass, after 5 minutes very little if any oil will be visible in sight glass B. Unless you fill up A via the level (like in your picture) then if you run the machine and you have filled up in A until B is also at the level, the oil will go from A to B and bring that area to overflow.
I think it could be a reason for the high spindle temperature.
Since your vertical spindle, which you use 95% of the time, runs much cooler and is not affected by the oil levels and degreasing, in my opinion this is another indication of a problem with the H spindle bearing.
The vertical spindle is lubricated by short lubricating pulses from the control.
I think the slightly increased temperature in the V-spindle is due to the heat (radiation) from the horizontal area.
If my machine had too little lubrication, one could expect that my bearings would cause problems at some point.
My machine is from 1991 and it is the first spindle.... and it runs very often at high speeds.... for 31 years....
Surely the temperature problem can also come from something else. In any case, you should check it to be on the safe side.
Gloryrates500
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Location
- Cologne, Germany
One more note on another lubrication matter.
Many here use CAM software like Fusion 360 for the old DECKEL machines.
The programs are often broken down into thousands of blocks and tiny steps, so that the machines have to travel a circular path in small G1 segments.
Caution! These old guides are quite unsuitable for the small steps!
Under certain circumstances, the guides can run dry! You should give the axes additional lubricating impulses in between. With the DIALOG 11 for example with M7.
Many here use CAM software like Fusion 360 for the old DECKEL machines.
The programs are often broken down into thousands of blocks and tiny steps, so that the machines have to travel a circular path in small G1 segments.
Caution! These old guides are quite unsuitable for the small steps!
Under certain circumstances, the guides can run dry! You should give the axes additional lubricating impulses in between. With the DIALOG 11 for example with M7.
Front of the horizontal spindle
Front and Above Y-axis
Without bearing cover / flange. Way wiper from the vertical head assembly needs to be removed to get the flange out.
Two holes below horizontal spindle, for excessive oil? Mine was full of gunk and blocked because of that...
Front and Above Y-axis
Without bearing cover / flange. Way wiper from the vertical head assembly needs to be removed to get the flange out.
Two holes below horizontal spindle, for excessive oil? Mine was full of gunk and blocked because of that...
Last edited:
I used this kind of bearing puller with M6 threads.
"pressfit" was really light, not much force needed to pull the spindle out
This hydraulic fitting needs to be removed before you are able to pull the spindle out. Its for horizontal spindle tool clamp cylinder.
Spindle
Inside of spindle housing
"pressfit" was really light, not much force needed to pull the spindle out
This hydraulic fitting needs to be removed before you are able to pull the spindle out. Its for horizontal spindle tool clamp cylinder.
Spindle
Inside of spindle housing
AlfaGTA
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2002
- Location
- Benicia California USA
Harri:
None of the attachments play on my computer....Gives an error message saying that the link is invalid....
Looks like the setup uses the bearing built in preload (no shims or spacers between the bearings)
Rear roller is not as critical as the forward pair of angular contact ball bearings.
Match marks (V) show the direction the bearings should be installed ...Marks should be aligned with each other when installed...should be additional marks on the inner races as well which should be aligned
on install.
If you purchase new bearings be sure to follow a run in procedure....Starting at low speed and working up gradually over time....Factory run in instructions on the Gamet tapered rollers on my Harrison 1330 CNC lathe for example
takes about 4 hours to get to full speed with temp sampling as you go...
Cheers Ross
None of the attachments play on my computer....Gives an error message saying that the link is invalid....
Looks like the setup uses the bearing built in preload (no shims or spacers between the bearings)
Rear roller is not as critical as the forward pair of angular contact ball bearings.
Match marks (V) show the direction the bearings should be installed ...Marks should be aligned with each other when installed...should be additional marks on the inner races as well which should be aligned
on install.
If you purchase new bearings be sure to follow a run in procedure....Starting at low speed and working up gradually over time....Factory run in instructions on the Gamet tapered rollers on my Harrison 1330 CNC lathe for example
takes about 4 hours to get to full speed with temp sampling as you go...
Cheers Ross
I hope the pictures work now, don't know what was the problem, but i uploaded
the pictures again.
That was also my concluson on angular contact bearing preload.
Need to pay attention to the markings when installing new.
The NU210E-P5 bearing is a precision one. Dont know how critical it is to be an P5 accuracy version.
On the other hand, would not want to try my luck with a bearing which doesn't have a inner race.
The roller bearing also needs to be lubricated with grease. Atleast thats how i see it. Because all these 3
bearings are in a separate section.
I was thinking that maybe this whole problem has accured because of the machine moves.
The oil flows to front section of the Y-axis, in to the spindle bearings. My oil drain holes in the spindle flange were clogged
and the excess oil didint have any way out and it flushed out the grease of the bearings. After this, the temperatures started to raise gradually.
So my conclusion is, that its good practice to drain out Y-axis oil, before moving.
I used 2 times a crane, so the machine is tilted forward when lifted and that allows the oil flow to the front section.
the pictures again.
That was also my concluson on angular contact bearing preload.
Need to pay attention to the markings when installing new.
The NU210E-P5 bearing is a precision one. Dont know how critical it is to be an P5 accuracy version.
On the other hand, would not want to try my luck with a bearing which doesn't have a inner race.
The roller bearing also needs to be lubricated with grease. Atleast thats how i see it. Because all these 3
bearings are in a separate section.
I was thinking that maybe this whole problem has accured because of the machine moves.
The oil flows to front section of the Y-axis, in to the spindle bearings. My oil drain holes in the spindle flange were clogged
and the excess oil didint have any way out and it flushed out the grease of the bearings. After this, the temperatures started to raise gradually.
So my conclusion is, that its good practice to drain out Y-axis oil, before moving.
I used 2 times a crane, so the machine is tilted forward when lifted and that allows the oil flow to the front section.
Gloryrates500
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Location
- Cologne, Germany
Harry,
I take off my hat and you are a wild animal!!!
I think this procedure is a treat here in the forum and i gave a lot of likes.
That the move of the DECKEL resulted in the relocation of oil is a very interesting point.
TOP and keep on going.
Cheers
I take off my hat and you are a wild animal!!!
I think this procedure is a treat here in the forum and i gave a lot of likes.
That the move of the DECKEL resulted in the relocation of oil is a very interesting point.
TOP and keep on going.
Cheers
This is the position where it gets when lifted up with a crane. Table is on the machine but lowered on blocks of wood.
It seems hard to find a RNU210 OR NU210 with p5 precision class, P6 is the one what im been offered.
Deckel parts book shows "RNU 210E P5"
Bearing what was in the machine is "NU 210E" with a really shady and suspicious "P5” on it.
It seems hard to find a RNU210 OR NU210 with p5 precision class, P6 is the one what im been offered.
Deckel parts book shows "RNU 210E P5"
Bearing what was in the machine is "NU 210E" with a really shady and suspicious "P5” on it.
AlfaGTA
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2002
- Location
- Benicia California USA
Would think that a P6 for that roller would be fine for most classes of work, might see a difference in long extended boring, but i doubt it....That bearing is a long way (relatively) from the double P4 spindle bearings.....
Cheers Ross
Cheers Ross
I have a query about that roller bearing from 2 other supplier. Lets see how it goes...
Franz singer have only kluber isoflex LDS 18 a special greasen in 50gram packings.
Nbu 15 is out of stock and i can find only 400gram packages in Finland. Thats way to large quantity for this project only.
This grease is also good? Atleast deckel manual calls for LDS 18.
Does someone know how much grease is ~ 30% in 7013 bearing?
And whats the grease quantity for the roller bearing?
Franz singer have only kluber isoflex LDS 18 a special greasen in 50gram packings.
Nbu 15 is out of stock and i can find only 400gram packages in Finland. Thats way to large quantity for this project only.
This grease is also good? Atleast deckel manual calls for LDS 18.
Does someone know how much grease is ~ 30% in 7013 bearing?
And whats the grease quantity for the roller bearing?
ballen
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2011
- Location
- Garbsen, Germany
Tell Franz exactly which spindle and bearings you are greasing, send him a couple of photos showing the machine and the spindle. He won't sell you the wrong grease, and if you ask, he will also tell you how much fill to use in each bearing. Note: the fill is different for NBU 15 and LDS 18, because they have different viscosity.
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