(Desperately) Need Some Advice/Help

[john.k]

My old man used to do all this kind of stuff......if it wasnt damaging,dangerous ,and death defying,he make sure it was.One time a security guard in the gatehouse of a factory tried to stop him when he was driving a 966 loader with forks ,he lifted the little office ,guard inside ,and put it out in the middle of the street.When the cops arrived he showed a court order giving him possession of all the goods and chattels......including the gatehouse.He wasnt a man to cross,they all used to say he would rather fight than****.Do you think he took any crap from auctioneers?

 

[motion guru]

Stay in school . . . at a minimum you will develop perseverance if you don't like it. Any virtue worth having only develops in an environment that is dead set against it. Quit school, and you will have a flabby perseverance muscle.

Switch to engineering if physics is not floating your boat. The things you will learn in earning a mechanical engineering degree will make you a better machinist - and if you like retrofitting machines with new CNC controls - consider a computer science degree - learn what a digital twin is. With presumably 2 years under your belt - stick with it and get the degree.

If you have electrical and programming skills - get the mill and get it running. It will be 200-230 volt 3-phase supply, could be powered with a rotophase on a single phase 230V dryer circuit in your house.

If it is of this much interest to you at 20 - run with it the best you can . . . and stay in school and finish your degree if at all possible. Getting a decent education with this machine to fill any spare time you have will do more for your future than you can ever imagine.

As of this posting - 6 days 13 hours till the auction closes . . . if you miss out on it at 4 bucks - then set about finding something else that will give you a similar experience with a machine tool with perhaps a little less expense on moving.

 

[Rob F.]

I dont really like to instigate but it is quite fun. Draco dormiens titilandus est.

Looks like you will fit right in!

 

[john.k]

i got a mech eng degree,first job I was sat down at a board and told to check and do revisions.......after a couple of months the novelty wore off ,couple of weeks probably,and I would sit and daydream about construction sites ,and big dozers and scrapers,and the smell of diesel smoke and fresh dirt......and all I had to look at was papers ,specs and plans...all time being paid labourers wages and promised that someday I would head the department and supervise 30 graduates checking and revising and doing crap. Not for me..........just remembered ,the boss told me his first graduate job,all he was allowed to do was draw round rivet heads,millions of them.......at least I was spared the preparation of rivet hole punching plans,bolt hole plans were bad enough.Millions of them.

 

[HOMESTEAD]

Scroll down to #19 in the terms and conditions for that auction. The auction co. is going to require you to have insurance to do any kind of rigging. It doesn't look like you have to use the rigger that's "onsite" though, so you're free to shop around. Do also realize that any winning bid is going to have 15% buyer's premium and 7.375% sales tax added to it. You get to pay sales tax on the buyer's premium, too, you lucky devil.

Not trying to discourage you, just passing along some info. I can relate to the excitement of the possibility of improving my work capability by aquiring machinery. If I had a dime for every machine I've lusted after that was on an auction, I'd be richer than an oil sheik. Everything from machine tools and fabrication tools, to skid loaders, wheel loaders, cranes....Some things I had to pass up, some things I bought and made use of, some things I bought and am currently trying to dispose of. YMMV

 

[Guest]

In terms of it being a money hole, from what I have heard the thing is in excellent condition, the gunsmith who owned it taking very good care of it, plus there's a Matsuura manufacturing facility a few blocks from my school, which is a short drive from my home, so I wont have to deal with freight shipping on parts, unless they're huge then I'll get my uncle's truck.

That thing could run like a brand new Swiss watch where it is at and arrive DOA, even moved by professional riggers. It is close to 35 years old, father time has probably left a lot of the connectors dirty, corroded and brittle, disturbing those by giving the machine a road trip can cause various issues. Trust me, I have had machines I disconnected running and watched them loaded and unloaded and arrive DOA. These machines were a lot younger than 35 years old. Two of the DOAs never ran right again.

Let us know what the machine went for. This place is a wealth of knowledge. I wish it was here when I was 20.

 

[BGL]

"Any virtue worth having only develops in an environment that is dead set against it."
- motion guru
That sir, is pure platinum!

I must comment on riggers, true riggers, not just guys who lift and move stuff. I have worked around and with; observed amazing feats by these skilled tradesmen. When I was young, I wondered why they seemed to be slow. But then I paid closer attention.

I watched them walk around with tape measure in hand, back and forth up under over and back again measuring, planning. A minute or two of conversation with pointing and nodding, some questions, more pointing, nodding. Suddenly purposeful movement and million-dollar piece of complex machinery is deftly slipped off a flatbed, up, over, around and down and likely been set on a crate of eggs while a near full martini sat atop of it.
Never underestimate their value.

Young squire, here be dragons!
Pay heed, they will guide and serve you well.

 

[ewlsey]

Any fair sized auction will include a "scrap bid". It's just a bid for the crap they can't sell outright. You can call the auction outfit and see if anyone had a bid on scrap and lump your machine in with it. Usually the scarp bit has some kind of "take it all by this date" agreement.

You would lose the purchase price, but you could wash your hands of it.

That said, 8,000 lbs is not much. Two pallet jacks and one of those fancy drop down trailers, maybe a couple buddies... Any towing outfit in town routinely deals with that kind weight.

 

[johfoster]

2. The rigger on site wants to charge $500 to pick it up and put it on a flatbed truck. I'm going to rent a forklift and try to do it myself instead because I feel like half a grand is a lot to ask for when all he's gotta do is lift it up and set it back down.

He also has to pay for the insurance to insure that your machine is covered if it falls, and you are paying for the experience they have to make sure that never comes up anyway.

As someone who regularly rents forklifts I will say that it is going to cost you more than $500 just to get the proper size forklift rented and dropped off at the location. (unless you know someone) I am guessing since you are a student that you do not carry any liability insurance, and any one with sense would not let you do this in there facility without it anyway.

As someone who regularly buys at auction I will say that you are losing sleep over an auction that is about certainly not going to end at $4. It doesn't matter if the auctions are set to auto extend, any realistic bids always show up at the end. I buy a lot of auction surplus machinery and equipment, and the saying always applies "you win some, you lose some". The more you do it you learn that even some of the bids you won, end up being losing deals. Just saw a 10ft press brake sell for about 1k in FL last week (needed some love). If that had been in AZ I would've jumped all over it in that price range, but the cost of my ltl truck would have been ~$2800 so it wasn't worth it for me anymore. You always have to think ahead of all the moving/setup logistics, or you easily end up on the wrong end of things.

Also if auctions were not legally binding then every auction would be full of people with no respect for the value of the time of the seller/auctioneer/real buyers. Sometime you make a bad purchase, and you just have to suck it up, pay, and move on. I have certainly made what turned out to be bad buys at auctions.

 

[m16ty]

One could just pay the auction company the $4 and walk away, but some have liquidated damages in their terms. What this means is if pay for a item you legally won and fail to pick it up, they can charge you liquidated damages for the cost of trying to re-sell it or remove it from the property. Now they probably have no means to collect such damages (unless they have your CC on file) but they can ban you from participating in future auctions.

 

[john.k]

Yes ,you will be banned for sure,probably put on a list,but no way I would pay anything,because you then acknowlege that you bought it......tell them ,by phone,it was a mistake,or that you are bipolar ,or some other medical excuse......because you will have signed up for other charges before you were allowed to bid,and if they add exorbitant storage on the machine,they may decide to cash out your debt to a debt collector,and then you will be in all sorts of trouble..

 

[Guest]

What is wrong with some of you guys? There is no way that machine is going to sell for $4, yet you have the kid in a panic that he will be stuck with it at that price if he decides he doesn't want it.

 

[cj7jeep81]

What is wrong with some of you guys? There is no way that machine is going to sell for $4, yet you have the kid in a panic that he will be stuck with it at that price if he decides he doesn't want it.

Yep, if nothing else, the riggers on site will bid on it for scrap value, at least that's what they do around me. Pretty easy money for them, since they already have all the equipment there and skill to load it.

 

[Mike1974]

I'll give my 2 cents...

I had solid 10-12 years in tool & die / machining work some years ago and moving a Haas VF2/3 just inside the shop where we had a forklift and I had been driving a forklift since my first job (actually got a 'license" for it there ,) I was pretty damn anxious about getting that machine an inch off the ground to move it 20 feet or so. NO WAY in hell I would attempt to move a machine with no knowledge of how to drive a forklift, or rigging larger/heavy things. And I was pretty experienced with a forklift and taking apart large molds and flipping them over and stuff.

Yes 8k lbs is not a whole lot in the industrial world, but I would hate to dump that from the bed of a trailer or whatever.

Not trying to scare you, just a warning about not respecting equipment and how fast it will hurt or kill you.

YouTube

 

[DavidScott]

If I had to move it I would use a drop deck trailer with some steel pipe to roll the machine on. Since the machine is only a few inches off the ground it's pretty safe. I also think a drop deck trailer loaded to capacity and driven slowly would be a lot softer ride than a flatbed truck trailer in a hurry, which would be a lot more gentle to the old machine.

I think Matsuura has a $2500 registration fee if you want anything from them. You should call them before doing anything. If you end up with the machine their support will be pretty important/ crucial to keeping it alive.

I also think bringing this machine home will be a huge mistake! It will not fit under a garage door height, among many other problems I can think of. Admit it was a mistake and don't do anything to further your mistake.

 

[toolsteel]

How is your medical insurance?
Life insurance?
Auto insurance for whoever hits it on the road.

Doubt you will get the 2 forklifts rented for $500
Not saying this couldnt be done by a do-it-yourselfer.
I am saying that based on your questions....you are not that do-it-yourselfer.

 

[m16ty]

What is wrong with some of you guys? There is no way that machine is going to sell for $4, yet you have the kid in a panic that he will be stuck with it at that price if he decides he doesn't want it.

It wouldn't be all that unusual for that machine to sell for $4. Lots of CNC machines of that age can't even get a bid at auction. Sure, somebody could always sell it for scrap value, but scrap prices are really low right now, and somebody has to deduct the price of them loading it and hauling it to the scrap yard.

Scrap price around here is about $90 per ton, if not lower for unprepared scrap. That makes that machine worth about $360, so even if somebody gets it for free, they have to load it and haul it to the scrap yard for only $360. If you have to pay the on-site rigger to load it for $500, you are already in the hole. I've got the insurance and the means to load and haul that machine, and somebody would have to pay me to haul it off for scrap. In other words, it cost more to deal with it than it will bring in scrap money.

 

[r1xlx]

get a guy with a truck with a lift crane and let him do all the work and think it money well spent.
But just asking: how do you propose to move it into workshope - rent some roller skates and a hoist or jus pull it into place with a come-along winch like I once watched a 15 ton plastic moulding machine moved up one aisle of factory, down the other and finally slotted into place?

 

[UselessPhysicist]

Yay! I got outbid. Someone else has $5 on the thing. Now to figure out what next adventure to go on. I'm thinking of making my own, let's see how that goes.

Thank you all for the advice, info, everything. Y'all are great, truly.

I'm still not sure what I plan on doing for school, I'm thinking math and physics at the moment, but who knows.

 

[tim9lives]

I think we must have a You Tube generation issue. They see stuff done by well equipped professionals and think "That looks easy" . How any one would even consider moving a 8100# machine for their first attempt at moving something that could cause bodily harm or financial liability is beyond insane.

I’ve moved a fair amount of equipment in my life...all of which I thought was fairly big, and a few times did them by myself. That said, they were tiny compared to 8100 #’s.
That would really give me pause. And that’s now with my still limited experience.
Hell....I must have spent 2 weeks planning the last one and it only weighed @ 1600 lbs.
8100 pounds and something like 84” long...... I’d have to spend a while wrapping myself around that one. Not something to take lightly if you’ve never moved heavy equipment. Then again... that’s the beauty of being young. I opened my business when I was 21 years old and looking back.... I’m still amazed I pulled that off. I was clueless but somehow I kept the doors open for 15 years.