Dilemma about moving jobs: HELP

[stephon0913]

Hi all
So I've been working at my current job for about a year now. Very small shop that manufactures its own product line, private owner, wife and son work the office and 4 employees work the shop including me, the shop depends on everyone to function so it goes without saying that no ones takes a lot of vacation time even if they have it. I'm the programmer/operator and I make considerably less than the market average for someone in my position. I have a job offer at a shop that's right down the street from where I live and they're offering to pay me 20k more a year than I'm making now at my current job. I could really use the money but I feel bad for jumping ship on my current job. Anyone else been in my position before, any suggestions...? Thanks.

 

[SND]

As an employee you are in the business of doing what is best for YOUR life(your family included of course), not everyone else's.
If the only thing keeping you somewhere is feeling bad about how they'll manage without you, you're there for the wrong reason, and sorry to say but some places exploit that feeling.
Just make sure the new place isn't some death trap where no amount of money could keep a sane man in there.

 

[Heavey Metal]

Give them notice and a chance to match the offer.

Try not to burn the bridge but be ready for imediate dismisal.

 

[tc1999]

just make sure the new place isn't some death trap where no amount of money could keep a sane man in there.

x 100000000000000000!!!!!!

Other than that, if the new place is decent, GEEZ!!!!! for 20k? What are you waiting for?

 

[i_r_machinist]

I was in those same shoes in the mid 80's. I moved half way across Texas for $2 an hour increase and an air-conditioned shop. Thirteen years later I left that company for a $20k a year raise. Sometimes you have to move out to move up.
have fun
i_r_machinist

 

[Toolroomguy]

Give them notice and a chance to match the offer.

Try not to burn the bridge but be ready for imediate dismisal.

I agree.
I went to Hurco CNC training with a guy who felt like you. His boss would buy his vacation time from him and had him working 50-60 hour weeks. This was going on for 2 years. We felt sorry for his misguided loyalty.
The boss will replace you when you are gone.

 

[behindpropellers]

Hi all
So I've been working at my current job for about a year now. Very small shop that manufactures its own product line, private owner, wife and son work the office and 4 employees work the shop including me, the shop depends on everyone to function so it goes without saying that no ones takes a lot of vacation time even if they have it. I'm the programmer/operator and I make considerably less than the market average for someone in my position. I have a job offer at a shop that's right down the street from where I live and they're offering to pay me 20k more a year than I'm making now at my current job. I could really use the money but I feel bad for jumping ship on my current job. Anyone else been in my position before, any suggestions...? Thanks.

If you like the people there and the atmosphere just be honest with them. Maybe they will offer you more than the other shop? In the long run it is probably cheaper for them to offer you $25K because they know exactly what they are getting. My guess is if they say...NO to a raise and you leave they will understand your value after they have been through a couple of employees.

Tim

 

[metlmunchr]

Don't feel bad at all about leaving. With 4 producers and 3 administrators, they're paying you $20K under market because you and the other indians have too many chiefs to feed. I'll betcha none of them are being paid $20K under market. Worry about your own welfare since its obvious they're only worried about their own.

And I wouldn't waste time giving them an opportunity to match the pay. If they did, all that means is that they'll assume you don't need another raise for at least 10 yrs, and you'll only get one then if you threaten to leave again.

 

[Lambert]

Without knowing you or all the details : did they invest in you in this year ?

Courses ?
On-the-job training ?
Moved from operator to setup/programming ?

I`m not saying you shouldn`t move on BTW, I`m just trying to see the bigger picture.

 

[stephon0913]

Without knowing you or all the details : did they invest in you in this year ?

Courses ?
On-the-job training ?
Moved from operator to setup/programming ?

I`m not saying you shouldn`t move on BTW, I`m just trying to see the bigger picture.

They invested about $1200 for a 4 day solidworks training course (mind you the $1200 was money from a $10000+ small business grant they received from the Feds ).
Another reason it tugs at my brain is the fact that the owner asked me if I would bail out once he did that for me. This just happened to be a coincident that it may actually happen. However I'm so busy with just being a programmer/operator that almost all the solidworks modeling has gone to a new guy they just hired that sits on the comp all day. Soo...if that changes any thoughts...sorta tough decision for me.

 

[behindpropellers]

They invested about $1200 for a 4 day solidworks training course (mind you the $1200 was money from a $10000+ small business grant they received from the Feds ).
Another reason it tugs at my brain is the fact that the owner asked me if I would bail out once he did that for me. This just happened to be a coincident that it may actually happen. However I'm so busy with just being a programmer/operator that almost all the solidworks modeling has gone to a new guy they just hired that sits on the comp all day. Soo...if that changes any thoughts...sorta tough decision for me.

Thats where you missed out. Integrating your manufacturing with design could have been a good move.

 

[tjd10684]

I am kinda in the same boat as you. I like where and who I work with and what I do but am under paid to the point that I would not be doing a lot worse as a cashier at Wally world. So my plan is to go out on some interviews and get the offers in writing then go to my current employer and say basically I want to work here and I know your not going to match this number but if you meet me half way I will stay. So in your case it would be a 10K / yr raise. that should be acceptable and if its not maybe they are not really as "family" oriented as they say.

 

[Pattnmaker]

I would not bother getting a written offer. If they don't believe the other offer you received, then you probably don't want to work for them anyways. The potential employer may realize what you are doing if you ask are asking for the written offer and this may sour their opinion of you if they feel you are wasting their time. You may need that new job either now or in the future.

 

[thedave]

My personal policy is to NEVER get a raise by threatening to leave. The owner will resent it. I have seen people do it and have seen several of them fired at the first opportunity. If you think you want to stay, make the case for the raise but leave out the threats of leaving. I did this twice, worked one time, they said no a second time. I moved on.

 

[toolmaker96]

Any shop owner that would begrudge you moving on to better yourself, is probably someone you do not want to work for over the long term. Undoubtedly, the reason they went into business was to better themselves.

 

[PDW]

My personal policy is to NEVER get a raise by threatening to leave. The owner will resent it. I have seen people do it and have seen several of them fired at the first opportunity. If you think you want to stay, make the case for the raise but leave out the threats of leaving. I did this twice, worked one time, they said no a second time. I moved on.

Agree. That's pretty much what I've done in the past. Have a better offer in your pocket then try to negotiate with current management if you like the place, but *don't* mention the offer. If they say yes, all good. If no, you just resign and walk away. No implied gun to the head that way. Once you decide to go, though, GO. Don't be talked out of it after they say no to a raise and you give notice. You might get the raise to keep you, but they will resent it after already telling you no.

Keep in mind that *you're* a small business with a single employee - you. You need to sell your time for the best rate you can manage because you only have a fixed amount of it to sell. Provided the new place isn't a hell-hole as others have said, I'd be moving down the road.

PDW

 

[borne2fly]

To quote a famous movie line ..... "It's nothing personal, just business"

 

[morsetaper2]

Why not ask for a raise by discussing what your contributions have been, and how your knowledge and skills have increased, over the term of your employment. And also bring up the point that you are underpaid according to the market for people such as yourself. Generally asking for a raise for the sake of a raise usually doesn't go well. But if you have demonstrated increasing value you to your employer you have a better shot at getting that increase.

But on the other hand, moving to a new employer offers you the opportunity to learn new skills, and a huge increase. If you are comfortable with working at the other place, I'd move on if i was you. You have to look out for yourself, nobody else is going to.

 

[AndyF]

I am kinda in the same boat as you. I like where and who I work with and what I do but am under paid to the point that I would not be doing a lot worse as a cashier at Wally world. So my plan is to go out on some interviews and get the offers in writing then go to my current employer and say basically I want to work here and I know your not going to match this number but if you meet me half way I will stay. So in your case it would be a 10K / yr raise. that should be acceptable and if its not maybe they are not really as "family" oriented as they say.

Don't do this. Ask for an increase, let your boss know that you feel that you are contributing enough to justify an increase in pay, let him know that you're aware that people with similar skills are paid more in other locations, but you happen to like working for him, but you also want to be paid a market rate. As soon as you play the match this offer card, most owners consider you as good as gone. They may match the pay to keep you for a while, but they are already planning for the day you leave. Many owners will also tell you to take the better offer, so be prepared to leave.

Also, consider the total cost of all compensation you get. If you have health insurance, 401K or pension, amount of vacation, etc... add that to your hourly wage and compare the total compensation at your current job to what you are offered somewhere else. Also consider the OT and OT earnings and whether the new shop has an OT policy you can live with. There is no sense in getting a $3 an hour raise if you lose most of it to an insurance co-pay or spend it on a longer commute. Finally consider the value of liking where you work. Money doesn't necessarily compensate for a crappy work environment or PITA co-workers.

 

[HiNi]

New hire is setting at the computer doing what you were trained to do... they don't see you as a value and your being paid accordingly.
Just so there is no mistake, YOUR NOT FAMILY, YOUR AN EMPLOYEE, take care of your family, because the guy your now working for WILL take care of his.
And this is not meant as a slam on him, he's doing what he see right for his business.

Everyone is right do not hold a raise over his head, if you stay, first opportunity to get rid of you, your gone.