Do Turning Tool Holders for Negative Inserts on Swiss Machines Exist?

[Nerdlinger]

Hi Everyone! I have contacted several distributors and a couple major brands and no one seems to make a 16mm/.625" solid stick tool for a neutral, say, CNMG insert for a Swiss-style lathe, where the shank needs to be in-line with the tool nose. There are plenty for positive inserts, like CCMT, etc. And there are some modular head tool holders that work with negative inserts like CNMG and DNMG but that's it and I hate the complexity of those things...locking cam mechanisms and all. I cannot figure out why no one would make that! Does anyone have any leads?? Thank you!

 

[Fancuku]

Smallest boring bar for a CNMG insert is 3/4" and it uses size 3 insert, not the usual size 4. And CNMG is a negative insert, not neutral.

 

[wmpy]

Ingersoll...

Rhino-Turn for Swiss Applications

Rhino Swiss Holders for DNMG and VNMX Inserts, Plus New Chip Breakers

www.ingersoll-imc.com

Kyocera...

Negative Inserts - Double-sided Inserts for Small Parts

With the same sharp cutting edge that comes from positive inserts, these negative double-sided inserts for small parts increase stability and wear resistance.

www.kyoceraprecisiontools.com

For Kyocera, look in their "Small Tools" catalog section.

 

[Ox]

Ingersoll...

Rhino-Turn for Swiss Applications

Rhino Swiss Holders for DNMG and VNMX Inserts, Plus New Chip Breakers

www.ingersoll-imc.com

Kyocera...

Negative Inserts - Double-sided Inserts for Small Parts

With the same sharp cutting edge that comes from positive inserts, these negative double-sided inserts for small parts increase stability and wear resistance.

www.kyoceraprecisiontools.com

For Kyocera, look in their "Small Tools" catalog section.

Thanks, I was needing as well...

Those look like a stable platform.
I was in a hurry and took what was available locally a few weeks ago and got one of Iscar's WNMG holders that uses the wedge...
Those look like they should be decent, but they never hold the insert the same 2 times in a row, and I have had the insert in a larger TNMG holder move in production from OD to face turning. They jist suck, and I knew it, but I took what was available.

And then - doo to the offset, I had to cock it in the pocket to clear the guide bushing...

But I got the parts out, so ...


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Nerdlinger]

Smallest boring bar for a CNMG insert is 3/4" and it uses size 3 insert, not the usual size 4. And CNMG is a negative insert, not neutral.

Der, yeah I always says "neutral" instead of "negative." My bad. Thank you!

 

[Nerdlinger]

Ingersoll...

Rhino-Turn for Swiss Applications

Rhino Swiss Holders for DNMG and VNMX Inserts, Plus New Chip Breakers

www.ingersoll-imc.com

Great Odin's beard, that's it! Thank you! The explanation everyone keeps giving for their rarity is that negative inserts generate too much cutting pressure to be used in a Swiss machine. My response is 1) then why make the expensive/complicated modular head holders for CN, DN, etc for Swiss machines and 2) The machine has a max bore of 1.5" so it's not like we're just making toothpicks here! Maybe the tolerances we need to hold are unusually open whereas most people need the precision of positive inserts. Whatever, THANK YOU BIG TIME!!!

 

[Nerdlinger]

And then - doo to the offset, I had to cock it in the pocket to clear the guide bushing...

But I got the parts out, so ...

Yeah, I was this close to shimming out a different holder so it wouldn't hit the GB, but this Ingersoll thing should do the trick!

 

[wmpy]

Great Odin's beard, that's it! Thank you! The explanation everyone keeps giving for their rarity is that negative inserts generate too much cutting pressure to be used in a Swiss machine. My response is 1) then why make the expensive/complicated modular head holders for CN, DN, etc for Swiss machines and 2) The machine has a max bore of 1.5" so it's not like we're just making toothpicks here! Maybe the tolerances we need to hold are unusually open whereas most people need the precision of positive inserts. Whatever, THANK YOU BIG TIME!!!

I hope it works for you. It looks like the Ingersoll holders use a smaller, though not uncommon, CNMG332. Kyocera has two styles- one that uses a very small negative insert that screws down through the middle, and another that uses standard CNMG432 inserts. You can probably only get the small inserts from Kyocera. Also, if Ingersoll makes holders like this, chances are that Iscar and Tungaloy make them as well.

 

[wmpy]

Thanks, I was needing as well...

Those look like a stable platform.
I was in a hurry and took what was available locally a few weeks ago and got one of Iscar's WNMG holders that uses the wedge...
Those look like they should be decent, but they never hold the insert the same 2 times in a row, and I have had the insert in a larger TNMG holder move in production from OD to face turning. They jist suck, and I knew it, but I took what was available.

And then - doo to the offset, I had to cock it in the pocket to clear the guide bushing...

But I got the parts out, so ...


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I don't have great luck with WNMG holders of any clamping style repeating well. I'm slowly switching everything I have to CNMG. The extra cutting edges of the trigon aren't worth the headaches for me.

 

[Nerdlinger]

Kyocera has two styles- one that uses a very small negative insert that screws down through the middle, and another that uses standard CNMG432 inserts.

oof, I only saw the small ones at Kyocera before but looked into it more closely due to your comment and sure as shit found the one that holds the 43xxx. Thank you!!

 

[wmpy]

oof, I only saw the small ones at Kyocera before but looked into it more closely due to your comment and sure as shit found the one that holds the 43xxx. Thank you!!

Happy to help. I thought those might be overlooked, so that's why I pointed them out. It seemed like you might be looking for something for the big inserts.