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Does it make sense to set up own CNC machines and produce parts compared to these Chinese prices?

gkoenig said:
You are correct. Apple doesn't pay $6 Million a year in airfare to China...
They pay $150 Million. To United alone:

Interesting that they spend so much. Also not surprising that you are lying again. Using your own reference, airfares to China are 35 million out of that 150 mil, with 115 going to other places. I guess they are all crappy quality as well. Or maybe worse, look mom, apple spends four times as much going to London, Tokyo, Singapore, Taiwan, and elsewhere.

Considering that almost all apple product is made in china, somehow 1/4 of their travel costs going to that country is not a huge surprise.

And there's no mention of a "special facility", just that due to their heavy use of United, they are talking about chipping in for upgrades. Maybe some of it will go for the other 115 million, the four times what they spend on china travel part ....
 
I can see your friends' problem right off - apple/foxconn doesn't make anything in shenzhen. You only missed by like a thousand miles and five provinces.

Good thing you've got your facts straight, otherwise I'd have to doubt you.

Oh. Not to cast aspersions on your fantasies but at $200,000 in operating expenses for a round trip flight to china, not even considering profit or depreciation or maintenance, somehow I doubt that apple is sending charter flights every two weeks. That would be around six million dollars a year in airfare. Even apple is not that stupid.

Plus I've been thru SFO, a lot. Could you possibly point out this dedicated terminal? Cuz I pretty well know my way around that place. Been there more than once and I've never seen anything like that. (I do miss Willie Brown's welcome speech. They should have kept that, it sounded good).

Mosty, let me refer you to Tex Cobb. He's got his shit together.
you should read up on airlines, they almost never make money on airfare. they're in business of issuing points to CC companies, thats how they make their money. big documentary about it on youtube. neither united, nor apple execs are idiots. however they're doing it, it makes sense for both companies financially.
 
you should read up on airlines, they almost never make money on airfare. they're in business of issuing points to CC companies, thats how they make their money. big documentary about it on youtube. neither united, nor apple execs are idiots. however they're doing it, it makes sense for both companies financially.
Having worked for UAL years ago I'd say those in the front office are really good at channeling money in various directions with actually running a great airline merely a secondary diversion.
Since I occasionally chit-chat with some still working there, it seems the new diversion is remaking the work force to meet expectations of a world looking for major change and being a good partner with the U.S. gov't.
Fact is, I don't know if a major airline in any country can actually-really-truly make a profit selling seats and meeting a schedule without gov't providing financial security is needed. Airlines represent a vital transportation asset and one or two will be chosen.
"Fly The Friendly Skies" Actually, at the time, it was a kick ass place to turn a wrench.
 
Having worked for UAL years ago I'd say those in the front office are really good at channeling money in various directions with actually running a great airline merely a secondary diversion.
Since I occasionally chit-chat with some still working there, it seems the new diversion is remaking the work force to meet expectations of a world looking for major change and being a good partner with the U.S. gov't.
Fact is, I don't know if a major airline in any country can actually-really-truly make a profit selling seats and meeting a schedule without gov't providing financial security is needed. Airlines represent a vital transportation asset and one or two will be chosen.
"Fly The Friendly Skies" Actually, at the time, it was a kick ass place to turn a wrench.
yeah you're probably right.
 
Having worked for UAL years ago I'd say those in the front office are really good at channeling money in various directions with actually running a great airline merely a secondary diversion.
Since I occasionally chit-chat with some still working there, it seems the new diversion is remaking the work force to meet expectations of a world looking for major change and being a good partner with the U.S. gov't.
Fact is, I don't know if a major airline in any country can actually-really-truly make a profit selling seats and meeting a schedule without gov't providing financial security is needed. Airlines represent a vital transportation asset and one or two will be chosen.
"Fly The Friendly Skies" Actually, at the time, it was a kick ass place to turn a wrench.

Self fulfilling prophesy.

If ANY of the competition is taking subsidies (of any industry) then they are able to cut their price, and put you at a disadvantage. So - you too must try to get those subsidies as well.
Then you have a whole industry with their hand out, and also requiring that whole industry to jump through whatever hoops that the subsidy provider sets.

Subsidies are a bad choice in almost any application.
Let a business stand on it's own or fold.
Make the product/service charge what it needs to provide the service on it's own.
In no way is it ever cheaper to funnel $ through a 3rd party - especially one that has secondary motives. (agenda)

Starts with good intentions, but before long it is out of control and corrupted.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I machine around 25,000 parts a year and don't have most of what everyone says you need, nor employees, nor do I farm anything out. Everything is milled so some lathe work would make it easier. On top of this most of my work is assembly so I only spend about 4 months running my VMC. I think 330k isn't enough but may not be too far off. As others have said there are many advantages to making your stuff in house, many of which you won't realize until you do so. The one that hits me in the face continously is I don't have to pack and ship parts, which is a huge time and $$$$ savings.
 
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It has been posted that someone has asked if you had your parts quoted state-side recently. (at all?)

One thing that seems to be a major advantage for the Chincs is that they are very good at funneling parts to the shops that excell at that type of part and qty. Thus getting the best price for such parts. Great for them as well as the buyer. Win / win.

But if you as the purchaser go to get quotes for the same here in The West, you are either going to put all of your parts out on the net for the whole world to see (mfg.com?) in hopes of finding that [near] perfect supplier, or you will send prints out to a select group of shops, hoping that one of them is especially efficient at your type of part.

There can be a major difference between a shop that can make your part, compared to one that specializes in that type and qty of part. It seems [to me] that China does a very good job of finding the right shop.


If it were me, and I was looking to source, I believe that I would make a few mock prints that represent what you are looking for, but dimmensions and features are skewed so that anyone trying to copy would be at a disadvantage. Then you can find the shops that you are after, AND THEN give those few shops the real prints to quote from.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Sucks that you have to go deep into the pages tofind someones location, It really should be right under their name for everyone to see easily...Here is copy paste from the OP "about" from profile page, not USA or Canada but Finland...:

First Name ( Removed)
Last Name (By Request)
Company Name n/a
Job Title owner
State / Province not United States or Canada
Country FINLAND
 
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Sucks that you have to go deep into the pages to find someones location, It really should be right under their name for everyone to see easily...
You ain't kiddin', this place has a database, why they can't effing connect two cells together, jhc. Yeah, we're not going to do manufacturing anymore, we'll be a knowledge-based economy !

Except they can't do even the simplest things right. Other than that, it was a great idea.
 
I have no clue why part of my post above has lines through it.
That was not intentional.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I have no clue why part of my post above has lines through it.
That was not intentional.
It's the strikethrough feature of the helpful text editor. If you do "edit" then find the "more options" thingy third from the left, then four or five choices to the right in the dropdown is "strikethrough".

If you highlight the text then click that "option" it should remove the line through the middle. Click again will put it back.

* I was wrong. It's the seventh box over from the left edge of the dropdown.
 
Self fulfilling prophesy.

If ANY of the competition is taking subsidies (of any industry) then they are able to cut their price, and put you at a disadvantage. So - you too must try to get those subsidies as well.
Then you have a whole industry with their hand out, and also requiring that whole industry to jump through whatever hoops that the subsidy provider sets.

Subsidies are a bad choice in almost any application.
Let a business stand on it's own or fold.
Make the product/service charge what it needs to provide the service on it's own.
In no way is it ever cheaper to funnel $ through a 3rd party - especially one that has secondary motives. (agenda)

Starts with good intentions, but before long it is out of control and corrupted.


-----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
"requiring that whole industry to jump through whatever hoops that the subsidy provider sets."
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Once you take the money you accept and agree to whatever terms the loan-shark (gov't) lays down.

Lots of war stories about corporations taking a knee to political demands and ideology which impact the market but most everyone is seeing where that has all ended up.
 
He's not looking to source. They know how to source, they are already sourcing. He thinks they can manufacture themselves more cheaply.

Actually, it's easy. All you need is one of them cnc machines with the "make parts" button. After that it's all gravy.
is that what all them chinese run? 'make parts' button? :D
 
A Chinese Aston Martin knock off? Will have to check Alibaba for a price.
The sun has set on the British Empire.
The Chinese were buying 30% of all new Aston Martins 3 years ago. 25% of all new Rolls Royces. A third of all Mercedes, globally.
And, of course, every year the Chinese buy a LOT more Cadillacs than we do here in the USA. Last year I can find the numbers for, they bought 50,000 more Caddies.
Although not the Pink Ones. To get a Pink Cadillac, you have to sell Mary Kay in the USA.
The top Chinese Mary Kay sellers get Pink Mercedes.
 
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Reactions: Ox
Have you made a comparison to a USA quote for any of the parts?
I don't think a quote for domestic market parts is comparable to in house manufacturing. However, if you were to approach someone and pay them for a detailed quote and use that to get an idea of how much is labor, material, overhead and profit. Might cost you a grand but could be all the information you need to make a good business decision.
 
He's not looking to source. They know how to source, they are already sourcing. He thinks they can manufacture themselves more cheaply.

Actually, it's easy. All you need is one of them cnc machines with the "make parts" button. After that it's all gravy.

But there is a stop-gap between buying from China, and making it yourself.
But - especially if you are looking for higher volumes, the art of finding the right shop is very important, and the "China Button" does that for you, and you need to understand that calling up the closest 15 shops very likely will not find you that shop that is closer to home. Thus my writ.

Now he very well may not find that shop in all of Finland, IDK....
He may need to look a little further, and at that point it may be moot?

Those shops doo still exist in The US, but they are a lot further between than they were <2001.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
But there is a stop-gap between buying from China, and making it yourself.
But his question was, what does it take to make it ourselves ? He was seemingly upset that the $5 part only had 15¢ of material in it.

That didn't seem to me to be a good reason for going into manufacturing, but hey, what do I know ?

Bluntly, he's an idiot if he or anyone else thinks it's going to be cheaper in the US or England or Germany or anywhere else. Maybe Somalia but not sure I'd want to take that risk. Everything is a minimum of 30% cheaper in China.

Here's a little tidbit : was asked to find a DMG monobloc 65, place needs two in a hurry. Found two seven year old ones in the US. They wanted $685,000. New DMG sells them for $425,000 in China. That's $75,000 less than they sell the same machine for in the US.

We're not even going to mention real estate, the available labor pool, the cooperation of local governments, the infrastructure for materials, packaging and shipping, secondary operations, health care costs, you name it. Not a chance.

Small quantity niche stuff, or maybe automotive and such, or big things like washers where shipping is a problem, maybe. But sure as hell not regular ol' commodity high volume machined little pieces.
 
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As others have said there are many advantages to making your stuff in house, many of which you won't realize until you do so. The one that hits me in the face continously is I don't have to pack and ship parts, which is a huge time and $$$$ savings.


Not following your though pattern... (???)

You make parts in-house, and you most likely are profitable, so how doo your customers get their parts?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 








 
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