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Does it make sense to set up own CNC machines and produce parts compared to these Chinese prices?

I thought that if he had gotten a quote from a US outfit that would be interesting Has anybody compared a US price and a China price?
For The deer blind failed China parts, I was not in a position to know the parts pricing.

Our aluminum welder said that a weld started and run only one way is prone to cracking..and the China parts were welded that way. .I am not in a position to know if they cracked in use. I don't know beans about aluminum welding but our guy is pretty much recognized as a very good welder.
We just sold the deer blind company.
 
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But his question was, what does it take to make it ourselves ? He was seemingly upset that the $5 part only had 15¢ of material in it.

That didn't seem to me to be a good reason for going into manufacturing, but hey, what do I know ?

Bluntly, he's an idiot if he or anyone else thinks it's going to be cheaper in the US or England or Germany or anywhere else. Maybe Somalia but not sure I'd want to take that risk.


Well, it really doesn't matter now, since if he pulls the product from China and starts to make it themselves, they will suddenly find that they have a major competitor coming from SE Asia somewhere. And their parts look EXACTLY like their own. :eek:


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Think Snow Eh!
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Well, it really doesn't matter now, since if he pulls the product from China and starts to make it themselves, they will suddenly find that they have a major competitor coming from SE Asia somewhere. And their parts look EXACTLY like their own. :eek:

Oooh, how terrible ! That never happens anywhere else!

It's happened to me three times and I'm just a crummy little shop.

This happens all the fucking time everywhere in the world. It's been happening for hundreds of years, that's why the guilds existed. This entire crybaby shit about "they copied our stuff !" is childish. It has happened for hundreds of years, everywhere. All the early US stuff was flatout stolen from the UK.

It's still, to this day, a worldwide product puzzle. Even when everything was made in the US, companies knew you had to flood the market quick or your cool new thing was going to be one of fifty on the shelf, that all looked exactly alike. Lots of times the copycat became more popular than the real thing. Take Windows, for example ... which, I can safely bet, you are running right this second. So much for your concern over "copying".

Snivel snivel snivel, that's what you guys are mostly good at. The country made stupid fucking decisions for the past fifty years, now you cry that "it's not faaair !" It's your own fucking fault. You elected those assholes. And re-elected them again, and again, and again. Most of them have been in worshington for fifty years. Who put them there ?

Better call the whambulance, somebody hurt themselves clutching their pearls.
 
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That is what patents are supposed to protect..the guy who spent time and money on R&D gets a few years to make some money back..and develop a manufacturing process to get the price most competitive.
A darn shame that doesn't work.
 
A darn shame that doesn't work.
Then you should talk to the patent office about patenting the sound of a v-twin or the color red. And companies like Monsanto that patent plants. Or Intel and Apple and the rest who patent all kinds of stuff that doesn't even exist, just so they can "own" the "intellectual property".

Patents today are a way that companies with a lot of money can restrict competition. Just ask Haas about the fucking crap patent on "conversational controls" that he got screwed on.

Yeah, patents would be good ... if they hadn't been turned into something they were never intended to be.

As it is, they are mostly meaningless shit, used to beat up smaller companies.
 
Most patents have a limit of time that they are in effect.
I can and have thought of /invented/considered making out of patent items.
likely any successful would be quickly picked up by a China outfit and beat me out of sales.
And the would-be fair if we were on the same playing field and our government tried to help support USA manufacturing, and duties were in place to even out manufacturing and shopping differences..
But it seems the government and some USA people wish to sacrifice the USA to aid the development of China because the average wage is low in China, Foolish because that is the communist way, to sacrifice freedom for free stuff. Most China farm workers don't need wages because they get room and board for free.
North Korea is even worse.. work hard and be dirt poor
*We need to be that way where the government decides your life...Not.

but Darn, that is the way we are headed.
 
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Most patents have a limit of time that they are in effect.
They are supposed to be in effect for a limited time. But in reality the patent office grants double-bullshit patents on "improvements" that are even more bogus than the original patent.

And then there's Mickey Mouse ....

The entire system is crap. It is not at all what Thomas Jefferson visualized.
 
My patent runs out.
An invention improvement can be patented by another inventor or the by same inventor.
If the patent office deems your invention not useful they will not issue a patent.
all seems fair to me.
 
Westec 2023 is coming up in Long Beach, that's a sign of the times, evidently not enough exhibitors to fit into the LA convention center.
 
I can and have thought of /invented/considered making out of patent items.
likely any successful would be quickly picked up by a China outfit and beat me out of sales.

If Ford or Joe Schmoe in Iowa didn't beat you out of sales first. If your product is not gigantically overpriced, there isn't much incentive for anyone to produce it cheaper, is there ? At least with products from China it's pretty easy to get a preliminary order stopping any potentially infringing product from entering the country. What happens when charlie down in LA makes your device ?

Like any legal conflict in the US, go rent a $500/hr attorney, to start. What did it cost Johnny Depp to get his reputation back ? 6 mil ? Because it's perfectly okay to lie about someone because we certainly wouldn't want censorship, would we ?

That's the system you made, the system you've got, the system you keep voting for. Stop complaining.

And the would-be fair if we were on the same playing field and our government tried to help support USA manufacturing,
You might want to talk to the US government about that. Most Chinese people do not vote in US elections.

and duties were in place to even out manufacturing and shopping differences..
Sure. Run your costs through the roof via total stupidity - I can come up with five hundred examples of unbelievable idiocy carried out by US companies in five minutes (starting with Yellow Freight ?) - then expect duties and tariffs to solve those problems. When a fishing reel costs you $1250 you will think about that approach.

But it seems the government and some USA people wish to sacrifice the USA to aid the development of China because the average wage is low in China,
No. The US put its head up its ass and decided you were too good for manufacturing. Let them little yeller people do that, we're the ones with brains ! We can do the 20% that makes 80% of the profit !

Except that was nothing but ego. The money is in making stuff, not doodling on your peechee folder.

But even better, the money you do make by design or retail or whatever, you piss away at a trillion dollars a year on an army that is totally worthless. Absolutely zero value whatsoever.

Even then you can't get your shit together enough to decide what's best for the country, both the "leaders" and the people spend all their time and efforts screaming and beating each other up over who gets to use what bathroom.

Here's a littlle clue - if some guy tried to use the girls' bathroom in china, the girls would rip his heart out and throw the corpse outside for the buzzards. They don't have that silly shit here.

Did you ever notice, it's not girls trying to use the boys' bathroom ? No guy I know would give a damn. It's always the other way around.

Foolish because that is the communist way, to sacrifice freedom for free stuff.
You're headed off into the weeds here Buck. Come over and see reality before you make these statements.

Most China farm workers don't need wages because they get room and board for free.
North Korea is even worse.. work hard and be dirt poor
*We need to be that way where the government decides your life...Not.

but Darn, that is the way we are headed.
You have no idea what North Korea is like. Neither do I. Neither does any of us. For all we really know they could be partying down every night, getting a little and having the time of their lives. All we know is the shit the NYT prints, and they are proven liars.

Beyond that, you did just touch upon a major difference, and an important one.

In China, what counts is what is important for the entire country. There's that quote from someone famous, "Better that one hundred guilty men go free than one innocent one is imprisoned" or something like that ?

Well, that ain't the way China thinks, never has been, and probably never will be. What is good for the majority is what is important in China thinking. If one innocent guy gets the axe, well, we're sorry about that but there's a hundred murderers, thieves, rapists, and financial crooks that are not wandering the streets.

That carries over to everything.

You think "government" is evil because, well, the US government kinda is. Because of whatever, they are for sale. You and I don't have the kind of money to buy them, so we get fucked. Lloyd and Jamie get what they want, the country as a whole gets fucked but Bain Capital does good. That's the entire story of the US since the mid-seventies, imo.

Not every government is like that. Some governments look out for the whole country because their system is different. If you looked at real world results instead of reading the dishonest crap in the US press, you would have an entirely different idea. I would suggest instead of reading that propaganda garbage, use your own eyes. They worked okay for grinding, they'll probably work for other things, too.

China has absolutely kicked ass over the past thirty, forty years because they put their nose to the grindstone and worked at it. Nope, not heaven, but not even close to the shit that the US press prints.

Would be better to make decisions based on fact, instead of propaganda and lies, maybe ?
 
If the patent office deems your invention not useful they will not issue a patent.
all seems fair to me.
It used to be that way. These days the Patent Office doesn't even review applications, they just rubber stamp them, and leave it to people to fight it out in court if they disagree. Patents have been granted for the blatantly obvious, and for things that have long been in common use. This cripples those without deep enough pockets to fight in court.
 
It used to be that way. These days the Patent Office doesn't even review applications, they just rubber stamp them, and leave it to people to fight it out in court if they disagree. Patents have been granted for the blatantly obvious, and for things that have long been in common use. This cripples those without deep enough pockets to fight in court.

I have always been told Patents, are only as good as your lawyers and the size of the bank account you have to protect it.

Older but good article.


"It’s a well-known fact that a vast majority of patents are worthless. Around 97% of all patents never recoup the cost of filing them. That figure has been floating around for years. There’s other compelling evidence."
 
Heres a good example of how "fair" patents are.
A couple of guys who got insanely rich at Microsoft started a company called Intellectual Ventures. They buy patents, any patents, every day. They own well over 30,000 of em.
Then, they sell "protection" to big corporations, saying, for a hefty fee, they promise they wont search thru their patents, find something they "own", and sue the corporation. Verizon and Cisco are both said to have paid them between $200 million and $400 million. No wonder my phone bill is so high.

 
Most patents have a limit of time that they are in effect.
I can and have thought of /invented/considered making out of patent items.
likely any successful would be quickly picked up by a China outfit and beat me out of sales.
And the would-be fair if we were on the same playing field and our government tried to help support USA manufacturing, and duties were in place to even out manufacturing and shopping differences..
But it seems the government and some USA people wish to sacrifice the USA to aid the development of China because the average wage is low in China, Foolish because that is the communist way, to sacrifice freedom for free stuff. Most China farm workers don't need wages because they get room and board for free.
North Korea is even worse.. work hard and be dirt poor
*We need to be that way where the government decides your life...Not.

but Darn, that is the way we are headed.
You keep blaming the government when 90% of the problem is corporate greed...
 
Westec 2023 is coming up in Long Beach, that's a sign of the times, evidently not enough exhibitors to fit into the LA convention center.
It's already been at Long Beach once? Twice? I attended the first year after the move and was in and out of the show in around two hours. It was not worth the 5-6 hours it took to get there and back. I'm going this year and hoping it's better.
 
I have always been told Patents, are only as good as your lawyers and the size of the bank account you have to protect it.
Yeah, It's only worth what you're prepared to spend defending it.
In my young and naïve days I spent a lot of money patenting an Idea which was soon 'stolen' by a large corporation.
I thought having a patent I would be protected by some sort of international law type thing.
Oh how wrong was I, one meeting of my local solicitor with their team of lawyers and it was "we have unlimited time and funds, you don't, suck shit"
 
You keep blaming the government when 90% of the problem is corporate greed...

So 100% corporate greed then?

I think western world has moved well beyond corporate greed. It went to the greed of corporate raiders, and now has manifested into the greed of the people running the funds controlling it all like Blackrock and Vanguard who have more money under their control then pretty much every country, and they pull the strings on those two as well..being the US and China.

 








 
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