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Drummond UK Treadle Radial Drill

Rob, you're the Drummond guy on here so I have a question. I thought I had a few more Drummond things than I showed and I found another small box. It had a face plate, a few chucks, a tool post, milling cutters and other small stuff. But there is a micrometer carriage stop I've been wondering about. I don't see one on Tony's site.
Have you ever seen one? Is it Drummond or after market? It's very nicely made and fits the rear way very well. For you Yanks, the front way isn't square. The top is flat but the front angles down away from the user.
(In my picture it's on the wrong side of the carriage)
Which brings another thought to mind. The lathe is a gap bed with no filler piece. The carriage stop can only go so far towards the head stock until it falls into the gap. Seems like you could only use the carriage stop a few inches away from the chuck and farther.
I'm thinking of this the only way I've ever used one. I'm I missing something?
Drummond Micro Carr Stop 11.jpgDrummond Micro Carr Stop 2.jpgDrummond Micro Carr Stop 3.jpgDrummond Micro Carr Stop 44.jpgDrummond Micro Carr Stop 5.jpg
 
I don't know the Drummond machines that well so I could be wrong in guessing that your stop is for a milling machine table or grinding machine table of some kind.
I have taken some pictures of some I have on My machines.
The black ones are on a Cincinnati Monoset , the green ones are from a Cincinnati # 1 tool and cutter grinder but have springs for a soft stop and no micrometer, and the grey one fits a Hembrug cutter grinder but is not original to it and I only have one like it.
This post about some for a Monoset or a Tool Master turned up in a Google search.
The clamp on these pull in the center of the T slot whereas yours is clamped from one side.
Maybe someone will recognize what machine yours is for.
Jim
 

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wow! good work gentlemen. impressive the depth of knowledge here. now if only I can get the right eyes on my post about the Starrett 164 T square..
maybe I should re-post to antiques from metrology?
 
Thanks Jim, certainly a possibility.
Kid, post your Starrett square here.
Once Rivett 608 sees it, or a few others, I bet you get your answers.
 
Maynah, Wouldn't say I was a Drummond expert, still plenty to learn! I've never seen a micrometer stop like this one identified as a Drummond or aftermarket Drummond accessory. I can't see how it could fit to the front slideway unless you had the micrometer dial in the gap and if did that the angled face of the clamp looks too 'shallow' for the dovetail on the front of the slideway. Perhaps Jim's hypothesis is more realistic. Nice item regardless! There's plenty of folk on the [email protected] team that know more than I do, you might get a more definitive response there.
 
Welcome Rob, you've come to the right place with your drill.
I bought an early Drummond model M and it came with a folder about 3 inches thick of sales brochures, (everything Drummond), correspondence, blueprints etc. I'll look through those and see what I can find.
Good morning. I’m from Ontario Canada and l am an absolute Drummond lathe guy. I have a Drummond M vintage 1920s. It seems you’re the guy with lots of info, someone on this site gave me your name. Love to talk.
 
Welcome C-man.
I do have lots of physical information, not much practical.
99% of what I know I read on Tony's site.
Let me know what you need and I'll see if I can help.
 
I suspect there were only two variants, but I could be wrong.
The problem with any of the old pictures is when were they taken and when were they used.
For example, the 1915 article. The top two pictures are from 1908. The army truck picture could be a few years earlier too.
A 1911 article says "the Mechanical Transport Section of the Army Service Corps is fitting out motor-wagons to attend
the vehicles of the Mechanical Transport, and that 11 of these radial drills are to be fitted in these motors."
Could the 1915 picture be one of those motors?

One way that might help get a closer date for yours is a foot operated belt shifting lever that is attached to the front left lower leg.
The early pictures do not show this. It appears in the 1915 picture of the drill in the truck and in the 1920 article.
Does your leg show any indication of something having been bolted there?
If not, then yours would be earlier than 1915.

Rob
Hi Robert,
Thought you might like an up-date. I managed to obtain an scan of the original serial number book. Unfortunately it only goes back to machine No 299, shipped 20th September 1913. Mine is No 103, so our original hypothesis about it being circa 1911 looks good. The records imply that they made 600 type H machines from 1908 to June 1925. Then launched the type HA drill, with the drive shaft up the column rather than the belt. Based on the serial numbers they only made 95 of these machines, shipped between November 1925 and November 1937.
I found another of the type H machines at the Ellenroad Steam Museum, just north of Manchester (UK). It was shipped February 1923. They kindly allowed me to go in on a maintenance day and crawl all over the drill. I figured the jockey wheels and the their brackets wouldn't have changed, so I collected a lot of dimensional data to reproduce them. The lower jockey wheel bracket pattern is currently at the foundry, patterns for the other bracket and the wheels are part done.
I've also made patterns for a new drive system that will use an electric motor to power a new pulley, via a layshaft, located where the original flywheel was. I wanted to avoid any welded fabrications so that the restored drill would have a similar design aesthetic to the original intent. Currently machining the first batch of castings.
So far I've found no trace of any Drummond black/blue paint, which based on my experience with other Drummond machines is very unusual. There are usually traces of original paint in the awkward to repaint spots, but the oldest paint on my machine is a blue grey. This has lead me to speculate whether mine was one of the 11 mentioned in the 1911 article you quoted from above. I've found another 4 machines in the serial number book shipped to "Dennis Bros (1913) Ltd (for lorry)". Do you happen to remember what publication that article was in? I'd like to reference it in my notes. I couldn't access a lot of the links you gave me last years, it seems that due to variances in copyright law I'm unable to view a lot of the articles you were able to see.
Best regards,
Rob
 
Hi Robert,
Thought you might like an up-date. I managed to obtain an scan of the original serial number book. Unfortunately it only goes back to machine No 299, shipped 20th September 1913. Mine is No 103, so our original hypothesis about it being circa 1911 looks good. So far I've found no trace of any Drummond black/blue paint, which based on my experience with other Drummond machines is very unusual. There are usually traces of original paint in the awkward to repaint spots, but the oldest paint on my machine is a blue grey. This has lead me to speculate whether mine was one of the 11 mentioned in the 1911 article you quoted from above. I've found another 4 machines in the serial number book shipped to "Dennis Bros (1913) Ltd (for lorry)". Do you happen to remember what publication that article was in? I'd like to reference it in my notes. I couldn't access a lot of the links you gave me last years, it seems that due to variances in copyright law I'm unable to view a lot of the articles you were able to see.
Best regards,
Rob

I am still thinking 1912, but it could be 1911.
The October 13, 1911 article, from Mechanical World, talks about a new design, but the illustration shows the old one.
The new design is probably the belt shifter mounted on the leg and the guard over the gears. This is shown in the 1915 picture.

Rob
 

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Great picture Robert! Where did you find that one? I have one of the 3.1/2" lathes (center left), but one of the earliest variants with the mandrel running directly in the head stock casting with no bronze journals. Second batch of castings for the drill were cast last week, just have patterns to make for the jockey wheels and bracket on top of the column to make now. Picked up this bench planer a couple of weeks ago, doubled by capacity for machining flat surfaces.
 

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