Duplomatic BSV n200 8 station turret acting up

[markp]

My duplomatic turret started acting up today. Its installed on an Ezpath II SL lathe. Never give me any trouble at all in the 2 years Ive owned it. I did a manual turret index today, didn't hear the usual clunk from the turret and saw that the turret didn't finish the move. Control errored out with a "did not complete macro" error. Removed the rear cover and the top pin cover and realigned the turret to position 3 as indicated in my manual. The shock absorber pin was dry so I greased it a bit. Restarted and messed with it some more and noticed that the turret motor was getting hot.

(Saw some reference online to the motor not being able to reverse and it can get hot if the index pin is sticking).

Turret knows its position and the shock absorber pin seems to be working but gets stuck. I dont think the indexing pin is moving into position as I can't hear it clunk as before
. Pretty sure this is the source of the problem.

No exploded view of the turret in my manual so hard to know what the index pin assembly looks like. Anyone ever had this problem and fix it?

 

[markp]

Heres the index stop pin on the top. Its not damaged and the .9-1.1 mm clearance to the sensor is ok. Found some basic drawings of the indexer internals in the back of the manual. Anyone have experience with the index locking mechanism in the bottom of the turret? If i remove the turret toolholder face, can I check if the indexer pin is jammed? Manual is poorly translated, hard to get a fix on how the system works.

 

[markp]

Now that the stop pin is lubed, the turret works a 5-10 times then the stop pin on top randomly jams (does not spring up after an index)and I get a turret error. I can see that the indexer pin assembly is moving in and out correctly. Im seeing descriptions of rollers and a cam in the manual and some chatter online about these. Nowhere do I see anyone explaining what the signs are that these are damaged. Im going to check signals from the pros switches and relays.

 

[Tedger]

The BSVN Turret is the later version of the BSA Turret. Duplomatic added a brake to the motor to make lock up more reliable and this became the BSVN. Mocoser is the USA dealer for Duplomatic and you can find some tech info on their website. You can also contact them for a parts manual. The cam and rollers usually wear out in about 4 or 5 years and neeed replacement. We keep spare parts on hand and have become adept at rebuilding these.

 

[markp]

Thanks, turns out it was the manual index button on the apron control. Was thinking that this was when the problem first surfaced. Opened up the apron panel and saw that the button was gummed up from coolant mist. If pressed, contacts stayed in, even though the button spring pushed the button head up! I cleaned with contact cleaner and now the whole system works as before with braking pin and indexing pin working in sync. I ran it through 50 hand indexes and some MDI indexes w no errors or weirdness. I guess this signal was messing with the PLC ladder and somehow causing the relays in the cabinet to not trigger?

 

[markp]

Well, started doing it as before. Im going to try calling macoser. Seems like an electrical gremlin as when it works it works perfectly. Id hate to buy a bunch of parts to rebuild and see its electrical.

 

[markp]

Tested both index and locking proximity switches and they are good. I also put an indicator on the rear test pin and the pin moves only about .013" when the curve coupling is locked. Its supposed to move around .039" according to the manual. When the indexer works, the index motor moves to position then reverses to lock the turret. When it does not work or partly works, the motor does not reverse, (only one of the contractors in the cabinet that control the motor rotation moves when it fails to index, when it works, they both do a dance back and forth and the motor reverses and locks the turret).

Tedger, based on your experience with these turrets, do you think this sounds like a plc/relay problem or is it mechanical wear? I was going to order a new set of relays in case thats the problem.

 

[Tedger]

The turrets I have are on Hyundai 20 hp lathes that were all built around year 2000. I always check the easy stuff before I decide to open up a turret.I have never had a PLC problem but I have had a locking control switch that would read a microsecond too slow and this would intermitantly fail to lock the turret.I have also had to replace the forward and reverse contactors due to worn out contacts on one of my lathes. Your motor should be reversing when the locking pin sensor sees the pin drop into the Cam. Since you have determined that the contactor is not firing consistantly,and successfully locks up when it does, I would lean toward an electrical issue. Either the contactor is acting up or the signal from the indexing control switch is intermitant for some reason.(Faulty switch? ,bad wiring connection?)
In my opinion, The rear wear pin that Dulpomatic wants you to check is not an accurate sign of the cam and bearing wear.

 

[Dan from Oakland]

Can you swap the relays and see if the problem changes?

 

[markp]

Can you swap the relays and see if the problem changes?

I ordered "new" used ones and a set of new arc suppressors. No exact match new ones for sale that I saw. I wrote a program to change turret positions with a 6 sec dwell and if I quickly reverse the opposite contractor that moved the turret, by hand, it reverses the motor and locks the turret correctly.


I dont see any problems with any of the contacts on my meter. Dont know if theres a way to view PLC status on my DX32 control. No mention in my manual of how to do it, Ill look around online and see. The prox switches seemed to trigger just fine.

 

[Tedger]

Post the results after you replace the contactors

 

[markp]

Post the results after you replace the contactors

It ended up being the index prox switch. I tested it earlier and it tested ok along with the top locking pin prox. I replaced the contractor and same problem. I measured at the prox switches again, and saw that the index prox was working intermittently, as indicated earlier by the erratic behavior of the turret, working sometimes, sometimes not. Bought a new prox (and a spare) replaced today, adjusted clearances, and all is well.

Thumbs down to Duplomatic, they used a balluff prox switch but cut the ID tag off on both of these switches. I had to look through their 300 page catalog to find one that was the same. Also, they used the cheapest ones they could, no LED! Its a Balluff NPN 8mm non threaded BES 516-369-E0-C. It does have an LED potted into the rear. I didn't change the locking prox. Its the same PN.

 

[Tedger]

Glad to hear it was just a switch. If you order one from Duplomatic, It comes in a Balluff bag that tells you the part number. (See PIC)I just get spares from automation direct for about $20 each. They are 8mm threaded PNP with an indicator LED.

 

[whackpak]

I mailed duplomatic for mor info and go the most recent manual for the BSV-N 160/25 from them and just want to share. I repaired mine with a defect sensor thx to the info above. from mega.nz cloud storage / WAYBACKTIMEMACHINE (LONG PRESERVATION)