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ERP systems

Any more thoughts on ProShop? I bought it several months ago with the flying start package for ISO9000 and AS9100. It was not cheap (by my standards).

I'm really struggling to find the zen here. Quoting parts is a ton more work than my spreadsheet, and adding parts manually is a lot of extra work for what feels like no benefit. The scheduling is clunky. It has a bunch of extra crap for cutting tool tracking, etc... which we will never use. The whole thing is massively handicaped because it has to work in a web browser. For shops that do low volume work, where's the value?

Anybody care to talk me off the ledge here? I'm about ready to try to get my money back. I see tons of people hopping on the hype train, but after some in-depth investigation, it seems like it's a point of pain for many shops. Is ProShop really any better than JobBoss or the other market leaders?
 
Any more thoughts on ProShop? I bought it several months ago with the flying start package for ISO9000 and AS9100. It was not cheap (by my standards).

I'm really struggling to find the zen here. Quoting parts is a ton more work than my spreadsheet, and adding parts manually is a lot of extra work for what feels like no benefit. The scheduling is clunky. It has a bunch of extra crap for cutting tool tracking, etc... which we will never use. The whole thing is massively handicaped because it has to work in a web browser. For shops that do low volume work, where's the value?

Anybody care to talk me off the ledge here? I'm about ready to try to get my money back. I see tons of people hopping on the hype train, but after some in-depth investigation, it seems like it's a point of pain for many shops. Is ProShop really any better than JobBoss or the other market leaders?


I cant talk you off the ledge. I bought the same package, and after 2 months asked for a refund. It did not fit us well, and felt like creating a work order took more time then making the parts in many instances. I'm currently using Order Time and like that much better so far.

We are a small shop. 8 ppl, and 15 machines.
 
I'm sensitized to this topic given my background for most of my life in IT & systems deployment sitting down with clients and going through requirements, etc. At the risk of vague theory crafting, a "vent", I'll drop out my perceptions from a "get the work done" view in another industry.

  • I had to fight with sales people pushing features that were meaningless to the client's, and
  • Had to dance with client Managers who wanted pie-in-the-sky to talk about in their board meetings, but didn't address worker needs).

1) Commercial off-the-shelf software will always force you to bend to the needs of the software, including its weak points.

2) As such, never take the word of marketing material, even when that marketing material is completely truthful. It is NOT just about the software having a feature that does "X", it's always about HOW that feature is provided. Marketeers will wax poetic about their software does this spiffy thing, and in fact the software does indeed do that, but may do it in a pain-in-the-ass difficult manner. It's not just the What, it's the How it does it.

3) Never let the software company drive their explanations and demonstrations. YOU drive that by compiling a list of Tasks out of your environment, with requirements for completing each task by an ERP (in your minds) generated from not only management, but the workers actually doing the work.


Walk through the Tasks with the Software company having them illustrate HOW their software satisfies each Task to see where there are matches to HOW you want that feature to work, versus places you have to bend over to how the software does it.

You know your business. You know your people. You know what's causing you a pain in the ass in paperwork/information busywork instead of making parts. You can only evaluate an ERP against that by pulling that Task List together and writing up HOW you need things to work. That's your Gage Block.

Be prepared to bend over for the constraints of a commercial, off the shelf, ERP. Particularly if you are smaller and the software has been written for larger clients with bigger budgets. But, again, your Task List gives you something to, to chart that course and come to an informed understanding.

Lastly, an opinion/observation:

Most of my time was spent in Police, Fire, and Emergency Services CAD (computer aided dispatch) and Records Management (RMS), both as a customer at a Police Department, then years with several Vendors who provided software.

I have found that there is great similarity between that environment and Manufacturing, meaning:

People on the shop floor are in-process, real time, Tactical resources who do NOT have the time to putz around with inefficient / troublesome bureaucratic BS. They've got work to do, to specification, if something unexpected happens they need immediate response for either instructions or information.

Just . . . exactly . . . like Dispatchers and Police working Calls. Police/Fire Dispatch systems are DESIGNED entirely differently than Police/Fire Records systems. The entire design principles are DIFFERENT than what is provided for in Records systems clerks use. Computer Aided Dispatch systems (a good one) will have its interface designed for tactical use in events happening in real time.

Managers, Shop Foremen, Quality People, Owners also have a need for concise, accurate, timely, and easily acquired information out of that environment, and cannot be burdened with a troublesome, difficult to operate system containing information and reports summarizing what's going on.

Just . . . exactly . . . like Police/Fire who have to submit monthly reports to the Feds and State, or have to respond to an event that has the community in an uproar with the media, etc.

One of the great problems with commercial, off the shelf software, is if it's being designed and coded by "desk jockey's" who have little grounding in the environment they are trying to serve, and/or have adopted a disassociated view where what makes sense at a desk with plenty of time to theory craft what's "good" and "right" bears no resemblance to the pressures, interrupts, and consequences for mistakes on the shop floor. In real time.

It all comes back to HOW things have been designed to work, not just WHAT the software claims it does.

For those that bothered to read all this, I applaud your patience. Thank you.
 
I'm sensitized to this topic given my background for most of my life in IT & systems deployment sitting down with clients and going through requirements, etc. At the risk of vague theory crafting, a "vent", I'll drop out my perceptions from a "get the work done" view in another industry.

  • I had to fight with sales people pushing features that were meaningless to the client's, and
  • Had to dance with client Managers who wanted pie-in-the-sky to talk about in their board meetings, but didn't address worker needs).

1) Commercial off-the-shelf software will always force you to bend to the needs of the software, including its weak points.

2) As such, never take the word of marketing material, even when that marketing material is completely truthful. It is NOT just about the software having a feature that does "X", it's always about HOW that feature is provided. Marketeers will wax poetic about their software does this spiffy thing, and in fact the software does indeed do that, but may do it in a pain-in-the-ass difficult manner. It's not just the What, it's the How it does it.

3) Never let the software company drive their explanations and demonstrations. YOU drive that by compiling a list of Tasks out of your environment, with requirements for completing each task by an ERP (in your minds) generated from not only management, but the workers actually doing the work.


Walk through the Tasks with the Software company having them illustrate HOW their software satisfies each Task to see where there are matches to HOW you want that feature to work, versus places you have to bend over to how the software does it.

You know your business. You know your people. You know what's causing you a pain in the ass in paperwork/information busywork instead of making parts. You can only evaluate an ERP against that by pulling that Task List together and writing up HOW you need things to work. That's your Gage Block.

Be prepared to bend over for the constraints of a commercial, off the shelf, ERP. Particularly if you are smaller and the software has been written for larger clients with bigger budgets. But, again, your Task List gives you something to, to chart that course and come to an informed understanding.

Lastly, an opinion/observation:

Most of my time was spent in Police, Fire, and Emergency Services CAD (computer aided dispatch) and Records Management (RMS), both as a customer at a Police Department, then years with several Vendors who provided software.

I have found that there is great similarity between that environment and Manufacturing, meaning:

People on the shop floor are in-process, real time, Tactical resources who do NOT have the time to putz around with inefficient / troublesome bureaucratic BS. They've got work to do, to specification, if something unexpected happens they need immediate response for either instructions or information.

Just . . . exactly . . . like Dispatchers and Police working Calls. Police/Fire Dispatch systems are DESIGNED entirely differently than Police/Fire Records systems. The entire design principles are DIFFERENT than what is provided for in Records systems clerks use. Computer Aided Dispatch systems (a good one) will have its interface designed for tactical use in events happening in real time.

Managers, Shop Foremen, Quality People, Owners also have a need for concise, accurate, timely, and easily acquired information out of that environment, and cannot be burdened with a troublesome, difficult to operate system containing information and reports summarizing what's going on.

Just . . . exactly . . . like Police/Fire who have to submit monthly reports to the Feds and State, or have to respond to an event that has the community in an uproar with the media, etc.

One of the great problems with commercial, off the shelf software, is if it's being designed and coded by "desk jockey's" who have little grounding in the environment they are trying to serve, and/or have adopted a disassociated view where what makes sense at a desk with plenty of time to theory craft what's "good" and "right" bears no resemblance to the pressures, interrupts, and consequences for mistakes on the shop floor. In real time.

It all comes back to HOW things have been designed to work, not just WHAT the software claims it does.

For those that bothered to read all this, I applaud your patience. Thank you.
I agree with you 100%. I enjoy to design software and also to make the front end of a software to be a worker friendly. However, major software companies are failing small machine shops across the country by designing software or tools that are hard to work with! No wonder most companies have 45% garbage data or data that is full of errors and 30% forms are left blank! Why? Because working or navigating the menu and modules is like having a root canal at the dental office! Software needs to be designed around the people who are doing the actual work.
 
I cant talk you off the ledge. I bought the same package, and after 2 months asked for a refund. It did not fit us well, and felt like creating a work order took more time then making the parts in many instances. I'm currently using Order Time and like that much better so far.

We are a small shop. 8 ppl, and 15 machines.
I see you are now using Order Time, which is the cloud version of AllOrders that I have implemented at two companies previously with great success. My current employer really needs this kind of system, and I am having a difficult time explaining why we need it. With AllOrders I had it integrated with SolidWorks to bring in BOMs through a custom Excel spreadsheet that rolled up costs for similar materials. We also had a custom receiver that broke down incoming parts into the subassemblies they went into so they got handled just one time.

I was wondering if I might talk to you directly about your experience so far.
Thanks,
 
Hi everyone, we are looking for the Jobboss Integration with Fedex and UPS.

Jobboss is our ERP system and has all of the shipping information from account#, address, PO#, Job# all within it - so rather than putting all of this data in twice and chancing a mistake in where or what is going I want to integrate or extract this information and put it into UPS Worldship and Fedex Ship Manager.

Looking for someone who has the experience and has done a similar project. Jobboss does not have this functionality embedded within it.
Please feel free to reply me thru this topic or email me - [email protected]

Thank you very much!
Cristian
 
Hopefully he got an ERP system working after a year of research.

I'm using ERPNext. Open source, large following overseas. It's not perfect, but I pay for usage, not seats. It's a leap ahead of quickbooks. Not saying it's a good fit for everyone, but it would cost you nothing to try it out, and $60 to let it sit for 6 months while you play with it.
 
Any more thoughts on ProShop? I bought it several months ago with the flying start package for ISO9000 and AS9100. It was not cheap (by my standards).

I'm really struggling to find the zen here. Quoting parts is a ton more work than my spreadsheet, and adding parts manually is a lot of extra work for what feels like no benefit. The scheduling is clunky. It has a bunch of extra crap for cutting tool tracking, etc... which we will never use. The whole thing is massively handicaped because it has to work in a web browser. For shops that do low volume work, where's the value?

Anybody care to talk me off the ledge here? I'm about ready to try to get my money back. I see tons of people hopping on the hype train, but after some in-depth investigation, it seems like it's a point of pain for many shops. Is ProShop really any better than JobBoss or the other market leaders?
We've been running ProShop for three years exclusively doing prototype work. At first I thought it was great and the problem was just a lack of knowledge of the system and a steep integration/learning curve. We were told that lots of shops use it for prototyping, in hindsight that was like saying a lot of people use adjustable wrenches as hammers... We tried really hard to like it and we are trying desperately to make it work.... It could be awesome. It is so close. It is not awesome. I personally like the founders, who have tried to be helpful, so this is not an anti-ProShop screed. But be warned! The ProShop Sales-Craft is top notch, the software however, is a high school coding project... Your accountant and project managers will come to hate you. If you handle those tasks personally, please take proactive steps to mitigate the suicidal impulses.
 
What are you guys paying for ProShop? I'm considering it too as a 1-man band and getting ready for the next leap but don't want to go through the rigmarole of quoting from them just yet.
 
What are you guys paying for ProShop? I'm considering it too as a 1-man band and getting ready for the next leap but don't want to go through the rigmarole of quoting from them just yet.

For the sake of some sort of cert maybe?

Can a one man shop really benefit from such?


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
For the sake of some sort of cert maybe?

Can a one man shop really benefit from such?


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Kinda what I'm trying to think through right now. Considering getting a cert which should be easier smaller (maybe?), and also so I have all my tasks well organized instead of waiting to get an employee before I get it out of my head.
 
What are you guys paying for ProShop? I'm considering it too as a 1-man band and getting ready for the next leap but don't want to go through the rigmarole of quoting from them just yet.
They're transparent about pricing on their website. Starting at $650/month. I've heard it's useful even for a 1-man shop, but I don't see it.
 
They're transparent about pricing on their website. Starting at $650/month. I've heard it's useful even for a 1-man shop, but I don't see it.
$4/hour for every hour of the month? Good god, that would have to add some serious value to my bottom line to justify that. Hard to see with one person but, I'm open to being swayed.
 
Might be a little late to the party. Here is a ERP software that is cloud base that I've been using at several places I've worked at in the last 15 years.
It's better than many of the others I've dealt with in years past. I know the man that developed this software, he's from the USA. The USA based location is in Texas even though it main location is in Shanghai, China. Rates start at $500 a month. Ken
 
$500/month for ERP software for a one man machine shop?
Now that's a new way of getting Shanghai'd! :eek:


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
One of the companies I did business with has six users on it and that's what they pay. The company I work for currently has close to twenty users, maybe more and I'm not really sure what they pay monthly. $500 a month may be for up to ten users, IDK.
 
$500/month for ERP software for a one man machine shop?
Now that's a new way of getting Shanghai'd! :eek:


------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Yeah ERP for a baby shop is BS, I am waiting to see what Eric @Orange Vise comes up with on his ERP side project before I waste money.
 
On the topic of one man shops, anyone here played with AppsSheet for small shops?

We are currently only a 3 man operation, running off a google drive spreadsheet for years. I've been looking for a simple solution to overlay a GUI ontop of a spreadsheet and have dabbled with databases in the past. I cant justify the cost of a proper system at the moment given the spreadsheet gets us by, obviously this is a long way from an ERP system though.

Happened across AppsSheet and I've managed to put together a gui within a couple of hours.
Going to have a play with it over the christmas break and see if it will suit us. Need to figure out how to automatically create a folder for each job.
 








 
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