What's new
What's new

Error 00 00 on Dialog 3 FP42NC

markp

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Location
Petaluma CA 94952
Well, After enjoying my working FP42nc w dialog 3 for the last few months, I was facing the edge of a long 2.5" Alu plate today, adjusted the feed up a bit to take out some chatter, and the machine stopped. Turned it off/on again and now I get a 00 00 error on the screen. 00 is a low control voltage. In other words the control does not start. There is no communication between the PC2 and the control either (nothaus LED is off). Checked the fuses in the PC2, in the operator control panel cards, checked the voltages on all the transformers, checked the breakers (did not reset them) , the q breakers all have 24vdc control voltage passing through them on the blue wires. On power up K3 contactor operates, but thats it. Also, there are no position readouts on the screen.

I do have a factory troubleshooting tree for the Dialog 3 control and according to that, the led conditions on the operator control cards are all good.

I also compared the PC2 LEDs to what they were on the machine when it was working (I took a photo of a couple months ago for reference purposes) and the pattern is different. I dont have a factory troubleshooting tree for the PC2 though, just the PC1, so I dont know what the differences mean.

Any suggestions?

Im including a photo of the PC2 from when the machine was working, (this is before pressing the green start button), then from after the machine died yesterday. Also, I did one more test, I checked and saw that the 2 leds on the 3 NZP boards flicker when any of the axis are moved by hand.

UPDATE: I did locate a one page troubleshooting the LEDs for the PC2 in my Dialog 3 manuals. Ive got green LED 9 on, "PC receiving data from CNC" and red LED's 5 6 7 8 on meaning "CNC has not yet responded"
 

Attachments

  • PC2beforestart.jpg
    PC2beforestart.jpg
    81.3 KB · Views: 500
  • pc2status7_15_2012.jpg
    pc2status7_15_2012.jpg
    97.8 KB · Views: 561
Last edited:
Has anyone ever actually had an 00 00 error? I see no reference to it in any posts here except one and in that case, the machine was still booting up but got the error after movement was attempted in any axis. Its described as a "lack of 18 volts to the cnc or pc" in the manual, but does that just mean that at some point, there was a lack of voltage? Or is is just some generic, could mean anything fault? Anyone have an FP42NC orange book? The wiring on my machine seems quite different from the orange book wiring I have for the Fp4nc. Thx Mark
 
So I put all the cnc boards from the FP42NC console into my FP41NC and the FP41NC boots ok, and all functions are fine. With the FP41NC cnc cards installed into the FP42NC that machine behaves exactly the same as before, it shows 00 00 on the screen. That eliminates the cnc cards in my FP42NC as the problem. Im thinking its either a bad serial cable between the PC and the CNC or a bad card in the PC. I rang out the serial cable and whats connected can be seen below, its not a simple straight through cable. However, I only have martins orange book wiring that is for the PC1 NPP80 card and I have a PC2 NPP90 card. Does anyone have the wiring info for the serial port on the PC2 NPP90 board? That would be very helpful. Thx Mark
 

Attachments

  • deckelserial.jpg
    deckelserial.jpg
    40.2 KB · Views: 479
Last edited:
Im thinking its either a bad serial cable between the PC and the CNC or a bad card in the PC.
FWIW, I once had an FP2NC/Dialog 4 that was very erratic on spindle speed gear shift and found that by reseating (or applying Stabilant) to all the socketed IC's in the PC boards that absolutely fixed the problem.
 
Stabiliant was the fist thing I tried on both the ICs in the PC2 cards and on the CNC boards. They have it at the Napa parts store down the street. Expensive!
 
Stabiliant was the fist thing I tried on both the ICs in the PC2 cards and on the CNC boards. They have it at the Napa parts store down the street. Expensive!
Well, it served it's purpose...at least now you know what is not wrong with the control. FWIW, I bought a tiny plastic squeeze bottle with syringe like metal dropper from McMaster to more accurately apply Stabilant to IC legs.
 
Yeah, I think im down to the PC board(s) now, since I know the CNC boards in the console are working. I pulled and reseated all the ICs in the NPP90 board and cleaned the leg contacts, the serial cable between the CNC and the PC is connected across all the wires so Im thinking its the NPP90 board or maybe just the Eproms on it. The NPP90 board at least seems to know its not connected to the CNC ,led 9 (pc receiving data from cnc) is lit but not 10 (pc transmitting data to cnc) and 5-6-7-8 lit. The eproms are versions
A 351.01
B 351.01
E 301.01
F 301.01

Any of you local deckel guys have an NPP90 board I can borrow to test. Or hex files for those eproms in that version? Please let me know, Thx Mark
 
Ross, I put your NPP90 spare board into my FP42NC after changing the DIP switches to match my board and get exactly the same result. 00 error, no nothaus led or # 10 led and no screen activity. So I guess its not the NPP90 board. Thx Mark
 
Ross, I swapped out the NSV 90 and the NEA 90 you loaned me today and get the same result. At the suggestion of Singer, who has been helping me with some diagnostics via email, I swapped out the NBP50/51/52 board (rotary knobs) with the one that is known working from my FP41NC and I get the exact same result on power up.

FWIW
I removed the shell of X50 connector (where the serial cable passes through) and checked the back of the pins/wires. I also looked at the wire bundle at several trouble points, where the Control Flex conduit passes into the X axis area, where it exits and at each end of the flex armor on the Y axis. It all looks like new. Didnt try to check them all for continuity yet but maybe thats next.
Thx Mark
 
Poked around a bit more today, removed the X50 connector shell on the female side and checked for broken wires then saw two capacitor resistor modules. On my machine these are labeled RCG1 and RCG2. On closer inspection, I see that one of the 10K mfd caps has the top cap missing and the center core seems shifted to one side. Unfortunately, I dont have a wiring diagram for the FP42NC just the Orange book from Martins site. In the cabinet book, it lists something similar, just noted as C1 and C2. From the looks of the orange book diagram for these they are part of the CNC and PC power supply, at least on the FP4NC models. Does anyone have an FP42NC or FP41NC wiring diagram that shows this area or these modules? I have similar parts on my FP41NC but it is wired differently into that machine than the similar part on my FP42NC. Not certain if they're pin compatible. Thx Mark
 

Attachments

  • rc1rc2.jpg
    rc1rc2.jpg
    97.2 KB · Views: 364
  • rc1rc22.jpg
    rc1rc22.jpg
    91.6 KB · Views: 342
  • c1c2.jpg
    c1c2.jpg
    83.7 KB · Views: 464
Poked around a bit more today, removed the X50 connector shell on the female side and checked for broken wires then saw two capacitor resistor modules. On my machine these are labeled RCG1 and RCG2. On closer inspection, I see that one of the 10K mfd caps has the top cap missing and the center core seems shifted to one side.
Anything is possible I guess, but FWIW I have never seen a cap that large go bad. And even if it did I suspect it has something to do with reducing contactor point sparking and wouldn't produce the error you have.
 
Youre correct. I swapped the RCG1 out from the FP41NC into the FP42NC and same result, 00 error. I did notice that Pin 1 (top pin, top module) on the RCG1 from the FP41NC reads 35VDC (when its in the FP41NC) and that pin 1 on the FP42NC RCG1 reads 13.5 vdc (when its in the FP42NC). I see that when I swap them, the RCG1 that I pulled from the FP41NC reads 13.5vdc when installed into the FP42NC. Didnt bother swapped in other way.
 
Machine is fixed! Thanks to Peter who contacted me through ebay, where I had posted the machine as-is for sale (dont know if hes a member here). He suggested cleaning out the axis servo motors. I did, there was very little dust buildup. No change after cleaning the X and Y motors but after cleaning the Z motor, the machine started working as normal. So thats a good candidate for the 00 00 error. Thanks much to all here who helped me figure this out, especially Ross who volunteered his valuable boards. (Ross, I scanned the manuals will bring them back later this week)

Thx Mark
 
Machine is fixed! Thanks to Peter who contacted me through ebay, where I had posted the machine as-is for sale (dont know if hes a member here). He suggested cleaning out the axis servo motors. I did, there was very little dust buildup. No change after cleaning the X and Y motors but after cleaning the Z motor, the machine started working as normal. So thats a good candidate for the 00 00 error. Thanks much to all here who helped me figure this out, especially Ross who volunteered his valuable boards. (Ross, I scanned the manuals will bring them back later this week)
Wierd. I was thinking the usual result of excess carbon dust in tach is the axis sounding/feeling like the ball screw has sand in the nut...don't recall a 00 00 error associated with the problem.
 








 
Back
Top