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Fabrication video, is it a sales gimmick?

SShep71

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Location
San Diego, Ca


I may catch flak for this, but I think this needs to be addressed. This guy, Jason, is a good dude and a pretty good welder from what little I know. However, he missed the mark on this video by quite a lot. From what I gather here, he is trying to sell more of his fixture tables and using this as justification. I know that is not what's being said, but I know just enough about marketing and product placement to know there is a fire when I smell smoke. I don't think he is being malicious, but I do think there is a significant amount of deception at work here.

In the video, and the Discord chat, because once again he turned off the comments on his video to push people to his website. He shows a print for a simple A36 steel frame with rudimentary dimensions and tolerances. He then shows himself approaching several shops to have the frame made, once the frames are made he discusses with the shops the issues he has with the outcome. Throughout the video he talks about welding distortion, about squareness and dimensional accuracy, then one of his guys inspects the frames with a CMM or CMM type of setup and every frame fails the “Quality Control”. Jason’s underlying claim is that none of the shops he hired to do the work did it properly, due to inadequacy in skill, machine, tools or whatever. The implication is that shops need flat, precision tables to build stuff with, ohh and here is a link to the fixture tables he sells.

He had shops build a basic table to basic dimensions, left out all the critical details (accuracy, flatness, reference surface, angle of twist, parallelism, perpendicularity, etc.) then measured all the frames to those critical details and failed the tables accordingly. This is a nightmare scenario and would make him a one hit wonder with anything I did for him and most shops I know. This is the equivalent of asking for a 1997 Toyota Corolla then being upset when that Corolla doesn’t outperform the field at an F1 race. I never bought anything from Fireball tool and at this rate, would never buy anything from Fireball tool. I am guessing that Jason got pressured into this by someone from marketing or from the “social media” side of things, some guru that promised to sell the world if Jason made a video. Just my opinion here but this was a huge fail for Fireball tool, if I want this level of tool deception I will look for it.
 
Wasn't there already a fairly long thread about this exact video ? And consensus was, you are correct, it's a self-serving infomercial where the setup was slanted and unfair from the gitgo ?
I think that was a different vid with a frame with no legs on it. Same general idea it seems though, I wonder if he used the same shops again?
I did not watch the video....
edit: I see garwood posted a link to that older one :)
 
He had shops build a basic table to basic dimensions, left out all the critical details (accuracy, flatness, reference surface, angle of twist, parallelism, perpendicularity, etc.) then measured all the frames to those critical details and failed the tables accordingly.
He has a note on the drawing that all dimensions are +/- 1/16" which they all fail on at the legs. That being said its pretty disingenuous going into shops like these expecting them to hold that kind of tolerance, particularly without specifically pointing it out to them. These looked like guys who fix tractors who aren't used to dealing with drawings at all. One of them even said as much. He should have at least pointed out the tolerance and come up with some excuse as to why they needed to be flat and with in that tolerance. All the weldments looked pretty good to me, and I bet those shops regular customers all would have been quite pleased with the end result.

His table looks pretty awesome, but its $10k (plus another grand for shipping). No way shops like that need a table that pricey.
 
Kids love welding and are impressionable. I bet he sold tables off this.

At the end of the day. This guy wants to make a living. He knows the market he is selling into. And in the real world community college weld shops are packed with students. While Machining classes are on the verge of another round of closings.
 
Quoting myself from the other thread.................."Dint watch the vid....don't care ifn the part is outa flat............just don't care..............for some reason that Utoob channel just rubs me wrong..............not sure what it is about that guy, but can't put a finger on it...............hey, might be a good guy, but the channel sucks................."

He's just annoying.................I don't see his vids come up much on UToob as I always click "Don't Recommend Channel".............

There's been a few threads here complaining about Uboob............I get it. Most content sucks................'bout all I watch anymore are are fails vids...........at least those are real life.............there will always be dummies playin stupid games and winning stupid prizes...............
 
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Ehh, I'm always painted as a fan boy of this brand or that brand. Yes, it's basically an infomercial. At the same time, if some dude with no direction managed to pick up welding and opened a welding and light fab shop, they might never learn about fixturing like that. They might have no idea why you'd want it or what it could do for your business. Maybe they aren't within 500 miles of any of the trade shows and will never see it there.

So they make sign structures and steel gates and all kinds of stuff for their local area and they struggle doing all of this on the ground with tape measures and chalk marks. The video directly shows them the problems it solves. It shows them how to make twenty of something and have them turn out reasonably similar. They go out and buy this product or a similar competing product.

How many ways can you tighten two jaws against a part? And how many machine vises are currently available in the market?
 
My take as a "welder" with little experience and occasional success making steel boxes (e.g. casting flasks of my small foundry) was that he did review problems that I have experienced and largely fixed without a fancy flat welding table. But, it was a useful review of methods, uber table or not, that can be used to minimize distortion. Most people watching the video probably can pick up on the not-so-subtle plugs for his very precise and very expensive table and 99.99% must conclude they don't need one $10K badly.

Overall, I think Fireball has contributed a fair bit with his vise building vids and other vids to the overall online information available to the guy doing "general" welding. I'd give him a pass for the plugging he is doing. He does make some good points worth bearing in mind. And then it might be reasonable to ask the "stone throwers" how much they have done to educate a similar audience and provide useful free videos that actually can help a person make a tool they might want to use.

Denis
 
it might be reasonable to ask the "stone throwers" how much they have done to educate a similar audience
There's several stone throwers here who have done a whole lot to "educate a similar audience" .... without setting up phony situations so their own grossly overpriced product can look like a miracle 'solution' to problems that don't actually exist.

People have been using welding tables since they invented melted metal, he's not doing anyone any special favors by blowing his own horn.
 
There's several stone throwers here who have done a whole lot to "educate a similar audience" .... without setting up phony situations so their own grossly overpriced product can look like a miracle 'solution' to problems that don't actually exist.

People have been using welding tables since they invented melted metal, he's not doing anyone any special favors by blowing his own horn.
You may well be right about the others here who have been critical and who " done a lot to educate a similar audience." Who? In what capacity?

Denis
 
I’ve bought a few Fireball squares. They work well for my 2-3 weeks of welding a year and are surprisingly useful for other general shop stuff as well. I’d love to play with one of his tooled up tables, but we’re talking $20thou once shipped and tooled up. Nope, nope, nope. A 6’x3’ worn out layout table from a friend’s shop close out and a few hours with a mag drill and voila… Works for me.
 
You may well be right about the others here who have been critical and who " done a lot to educate a similar audience." Who? In what capacity?
Within the past few days I saw where Ox must have spent hours writing paragraph after paragraph about how multi-spindles work. Not one word about "here, buy some stuff from me". Not one. Pure generosity, on a complicated subject that had no monetary reward for him.

"In what capacity" ? like, nice guy helping someone capacity ? Is that too difficult to figure out ?
 








 
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