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Fanuc Beginner Questions Kitamura Sonic Mill 3X with 15M Control

goldenfab

Cast Iron
Joined
May 25, 2016
Location
USA Prescott , Arizona
My experience is limited to making parts with a pc controlled retrofit mill and just recently having got the basics of my Fadal figured out (jog, home, tool change, run up spindle etc). I'm trying to figure out the basics of the Kit and I've been pouring hours of time into it and am making very little progress. The Kitamura Manual is terrible from a user perspective and I'm not finding solutions in the GE 15M manual I have. Is there some better reading material or videos out there to get up to speed with this control?

I have the machine powered up with air and no alarms. So far all I can do is:
-Jog each axis with the MPG
-Zero each axis (hit the jog button and get the green lights for each axis)
-In MDI mode enter G00 G91 X1; and START and the x axis moves

What I have not figured out:
-In MDI mode enter M03 S500; and START results in the spindle turning really slow maybe 50rpm? If I enter S1000 is doesn't turn any faster and S50 it doesn't turn any slower.
Also I can't figure out how to turn the spindle off. ESTOP is the only thing I have figured out will make it stop.

-There are three programs stored in memory and when I attempt to run any of them the axis will move the first movement, the spindle spins really slow, and then everything stops but the spindle. No errors or messages on the control pop up. Is there a menu somewhere to see what state the machine is in to figure out why its paused? I'm not even sure I am running the program correctly. In memory mode I figured out how to search for programs, enter the program number, and select execute which brings up g code on the screen and then I push the green START button. I'll get the exact code to post when I'm down at the shop next.

-I can't get any movement out of the ATC no matter what combinations of buttons I push. Additionally when I push the UNCLAMP button I hear a solenoid or something in the ATC carousel but it sounds really weak and the light for that button flashes. When I push the CLAMP button there is no noise and that button stays illuminated. I have no idea what should happen.

-I also want to backup all the parameters and then replace the batteries. I should be able to do this to a laptop over RS232 right? I started looking into this but if anyone knows of a good tutorial on this I'd appreciate it.
 
Let's start with some basics.
Make sure the override for spindle is at 100%.
Some machines also have an air gap sensor, and if there's no tool in the spindle, they will not go more than a few RPM to avoid internal damage.

Running Programs - if there's no tool offset or Work coordinate data, most likely the machine won't be able to do much.

The machine will need to be "Homed" or "Zero-ed" every time you fire it up. Do you know how to do this?

The ATC will not function unless certain conditions are met such as :
1) Spindle in M05 (STOP) condition.
2) Z Axis at home or Tool Change position
3) A Tool is specified at or before the M06
 
Spindle speed goes before starting the spindle.

In mdi mode

S500
Eob
M3
Eob
Insert
Cycle start

Spindle starts at 500.

You want to increase to 1000?

S1000
Eob
Insert
Cycle start

You want to put tool 5 in the spindle?

T5
Eob
M6
Eob
Cycle start

You may need to home the machine on startup if it doesn't have absolute encoders.

Once it's homed you don't need to home z again for a toolchange. It knows to go home to change the tool.
 
are you sure that power is correctly hooked up to it?

I am asking because a lot of things on kitamuras are hydraulic. IDK if the spindle gearbox selector is hydraulic, but most of the ATC is hydraulic.

So, make sure the hydraulic motor is turning the right way and you have hydraulic pressure.


Edit: forgot i had a kitamura 3x (for kitamura 0m or yasnac) manual. This tells me gearbox selector is hydraulic, i would expect the same for your machine.

1702484253344.png


Edit: if you find the motor for the hydraulic is turning the wrong way, you have the phase backwards and need to swap power wires going to the machine.
 
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I am guessing you have absolute encoders and haven't homed it out after powering up. My Yasnac controled Kit isn't supposed to work without homing after powering it up but the only restriction is it's stuck at 25% rapids. It is a parameter that controls if you need to home or not. If I jog the axis home it will turn the lights green but nothing else. I need to select Home then jog to home to do it properly, or G91G28X0Y0Z0 in MDI or the warmup program.

The spindle off button or reset should turn the spindle off. Reset works for about everything.

If you have a chiller that will tell you if you have the phases right or wrong.

Was your mill built in Japan or Taiwan?
 
Let's start with some basics.
Make sure the override for spindle is at 100%.
Some machines also have an air gap sensor, and if there's no tool in the spindle, they will not go more than a few RPM to avoid internal damage.

Running Programs - if there's no tool offset or Work coordinate data, most likely the machine won't be able to do much.

The machine will need to be "Homed" or "Zero-ed" every time you fire it up. Do you know how to do this?
I have not set any offsets so maybe I need to do that. I have homed the machine assuming turning the mode select switch to ZERO RET. and pushing the jog button until and waiting for the ZERO POSTIN light to come on.

The ATC will not function unless certain conditions are met such as :
1) Spindle in M05 (STOP) condition.
2) Z Axis at home or Tool Change position
3) A Tool is specified at or before the M06
I have met those conditions and still no action from the ATC.
When I push the UNCLAMP I can't get a tool in the spindle because its not unclamping.

That was a typo, I had put the speed before the M3. When I try to add new code in the MDI mode I get a EDIT REGECTED and WRN, see attached pic. How to you enter new g code commands when you are in MDI mode without hitting reset and starting over?

are you sure that power is correctly hooked up to it?
Maybe not. It's hooked up to a 25hp RCP. Attached is a pic of the wiring. I'm not sure what order L1, L2, L3 should be on the motor. Maybe should be in order left to right? If so I need to swap blue and black at the idler.

I am guessing you have absolute encoders and haven't homed it out after powering up. My Yasnac controled Kit isn't supposed to work without homing after powering it up but the only restriction is it's stuck at 25% rapids. It is a parameter that controls if you need to home or not. If I jog the axis home it will turn the lights green but nothing else. I need to select Home then jog to home to do it properly, or G91G28X0Y0Z0 in MDI or the warmup program.

The spindle off button or reset should turn the spindle off. Reset works for about everything.

If you have a chiller that will tell you if you have the phases right or wrong.

Was your mill built in Japan or Taiwan?
I haven't seen Taiwan written on anything and it was made in 1995 so I'm guessing Japan.

I̶'̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶p̶i̶n̶d̶l̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶t̶o̶n̶.̶ [EDIT: there is one and of my last post it works] Reset doesn't turn the spindle off. Not sure how I can tell from the chiller if the phases are right. See bubble in the lines vs fluid?
 

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Lets back way, way up!

STEP 1- VERIFY PHASE ROTATION!!!!

If you are spinning the hydraulic pump backwards you probably destroyed it by now. You hook power up, jog the contactors for hydraulics, coolant or lube pump and you make sure you have hydraulic pressure or the motor shafts are spinning the correct way.

This is step #1 for any 3 phase machine from a dumb air compressor to the fanciest CNC.
 
Thank you everyone for the help thus far.

Lets back way, way up!

STEP 1- VERIFY PHASE ROTATION!!!!

If you are spinning the hydraulic pump backwards you probably destroyed it by now. You hook power up, jog the contactors for hydraulics, coolant or lube pump and you make sure you have hydraulic pressure or the motor shafts are spinning the correct way.

This is step #1 for any 3 phase machine from a dumb air compressor to the fanciest CNC.
Yes good point. Since the machine booted up without errors I just marched on. Taking a step back now.

I went to the hydraulic pump to see if I could verify the outlet line has pressure and right off I noticed the pump was off. I traced back the wire to the relay that turns it on and the pump wasn't getting power because the breaker on the relay was tripped. After re-setting it (machine wired the same way) the pump turns on. The UNCLAMP button works and I was able to load a tool in the spindle. The spindle speed seems to be correct when changing between 100 and 500 rpm. Also when in MDI mode it will take a new command now vs before it would throw an EDIT REJECTED and WRN message.

This being said is there any reason to further verifying the my wiring? I have an oscilloscope but would need to order a third probe. Also note the generated leg from the RPC is the L3 leg on the machine.

Luckily it looks like I didn't burn up my hydraulic pump. Is there anything else I should check before I break something? If I don't have any tools in the spindle or ATC and the machine Z is at the zero height is there any combination of the ATC buttons I could press that would crash or break anything?

Regarding back up: is the control a model 15A or 15B?
When it boots up it says F15M9A AA2GC
 
Phase rotation can be verified with rotation meter, but it's easier and foolproof to just use a motor on the machine. If the hydraulic pump is pump then you have the phase rotation correct. That's all you need to do.

There are some machines that will come alive regardless of phase rotation and will damage themselves.

You should be good to go now.

Next- How long as the mill been sitting? Make sure the spindle oiler is oiling. Cycle it manually if you can. The spindle air oiler meters tiny amounts of oil to the spindle bearings. The system does not like to sit. It's moreso designed to run 24/7 than to sit.

This mill should have a big warning sticker on the headstock with the spindle warmup procedure. Don't ignore it.
 
Send me an email and I'll send you back-up instructions: [email protected]
Thank you for backup info you sent it was very helpful.

I finally got around to backup up the machine per your instructions. A few questions on backing up this Fanuc 15-MA control
(for anyone else reading this trying to learn how to backup this control here is another set of backup instructions similar to what I did that I found online)
https://www.memex.ca/wp-content/uploads/M100742A-Fanuc-15A-Add-on-Memory-Board-Manual.pdf

I backed up the PARAMETER(SETTINGS) using "PUNCH" then "ALL". I was able to get a text file over rs232 to my laptop and verified I had parameters 0000 through 9147 and the pitch data. I also backup of the offsets and an old program that was on the machine which I'm guessing is meaningless for me because this a new to me machine. My question is I've read from different source about people talking about 8000 and 9000 programs (maybe they were using program and parameters interchangeably?). I don't see any such programs on the machine. Are there 8000 / 9000 programs on the machine somewhere I need to backup and if so what do they do and where do I find them?

Also per the directions I output parameters on the PC side "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->PARAM->CNC/S.FORM->ADD. I was not sure if this backed up other data I could possible need in the future? So I also did "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->LADDER->ADD and "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->LIBRRY->ADD and "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->ALL->ADD for good measure. When I tried to do "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->ADRS nothing happens - I don't get the ADD prompt. Is backing up LADDER and LIBRRY not something I would need in the event of battery loss?

Thanks for all the help so far. I was pretty lost without it.
 
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I thought this machine was mid 90's? That should be hard into 15M-B territory. 15MA is a totally different control used in the 80's and early 90's.
 
Thank you for backup info you sent it was very helpful.

I finally got around to backup up the machine per your instructions. A few questions on backing up this Fanuc 15-MA control
(for anyone else reading this trying to learn how to backup this control here is another set of backup instructions similar to what I did that I found online)
https://www.memex.ca/wp-content/uploads/M100742A-Fanuc-15A-Add-on-Memory-Board-Manual.pdf

I backed up the PARAMETER(SETTINGS) using "PUNCH" then "ALL". I was able to get a text file over rs232 to my laptop and verified I had parameters 0000 through 9147 and the pitch data. I also backup of the offsets and an old program that was on the machine which I'm guessing is meaningless for me because this a new to me machine. My question is I've read from different source about people talking about 8000 and 9000 programs (maybe they were using program and parameters interchangeably?). I don't see any such programs on the machine. Are there 8000 / 9000 programs on the machine somewhere I need to backup and if so what do they do and where do I find them?

Also per the directions I output parameters on the PC side "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->PARAM->CNC/S.FORM->ADD. I was not sure if this backed up other data I could possible need in the future? So I also did "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->LADDER->ADD and "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->LIBRRY->ADD and "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->ALL->ADD for good measure. When I tried to do "LEFT ARROW"->IO-FDCAS->OUTPUT->ADRS nothing happens - I don't get the ADD prompt. Is backing up LADDER and LIBRRY not something I would need in the event of battery loss?

Thanks for all the help so far. I was pretty lost without it.
8000 programs are macros. Sometimes these also control the ATC)
9000 programs are internal custom programs. (Usually M-code, etc.. )
In order to download they both need to be enabled to display on your control. There are several Fanuc experts that can show which Fanuc 15MA parameters need to be on for that.
 
I thought this machine was mid 90's? That should be hard into 15M-B territory. 15MA is a totally different control used in the 80's and early 90's.
Yes the guy I bought it from said it was a '95 model. The drawings in the manual are dated '95 and the accuracy test from Kit was signed and dated Jan '96. From what I know the Sonic Mill a bit of an odd duck which was basically a Mycenter with upgraded controls and it didn't sell well so they discontinued it.

This pic is from inside the cabinet
1709587338807.png
FANUC Series 15-MA
TYPE A02B-0094-B502 No. E95X05119
DATE 1995-10
 








 
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